Sao Tome and Principe Dobra

[Dinar Is Served!]

I'm not sure if anyone has already talked about this subject...so i'm tossing it out like a New Kids on the Block CD. Has anyone thought about the idea of purchasing the Soa Tome and Principe currency? There was the discovery of Oil right under them...and the bigger companies have already bid on blocks of off-shore property. http://www.oanda.com/convert/fxhistory?lang=en&date1=01%2F07%2F06&date=01%2F13%2F06&date_fmt=us&exch=USD&exch2=&expr=STD&expr2=&margin_fixed=0&format=HTML&SUBMIT=Get+TableYou can check this website...if you go back to last year...the currency rates showed a little over 9,000 STD=1 USD...now it's at 7300 STD=1 USD. Not bad...Not bad at all!
Everything I read says that in the next 10 years the oil will start flowing and these guys will be rolling in it. I know they have a lot of debt but and they probably will not make it down to 1=1, but the almost 20% last year would have been worth it.

What do you guys see or know about this?

[Dinar Is Served!]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/3070813.stm
Here is another good link...it's from 03, but still good stuff.

[donotdenydinar]

very interesting. I know nothing about this country. but this shows positive movement.

[onenomad]

Im the same no nothing of the place but worth more looking into for sure

[Dinar Is Served!]

Im the same no nothing of the place but worth more looking into for sure

Yeah it does. Actually it was JoeyScorpion that talked to me about it...we're trying to find out a way to get there to actually get the Sao Tome Dobra. I'm thinking that as the oil companies roll in their money will gradually increase...no lopping of zeros etc. Maybe I'm way off.

[onenomad]

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/tp.html

its a start for info lets see what you all think

[Phil S]

I'm not sure if anyone has already talked about this subject...so i'm tossing it out like a New Kids on the Block CD. Has anyone thought about the idea of purchasing the Soa Tome and Principe currency? There was the discovery of Oil right under them...and the bigger companies have already bid on blocks of off-shore property. http://www.oanda.com/convert/fxhistory?lang=en&date1=01%2F07%2F06&date=01%2F13%2F06&date_fmt=us&exch=USD&exch2=&expr=STD&expr2=&margin_fixed=0&format=HTML&SUBMIT=Get+TableYou can check this website...if you go back to last year...the currency rates showed a little over 9,000 STD=1 USD...now it's at 7300 STD=1 USD. Not bad...Not bad at all!
Everything I read says that in the next 10 years the oil will start flowing and these guys will be rolling in it. I know they have a lot of debt but and they probably will not make it down to 1=1, but the almost 20% last year would have been worth it.

What do you guys see or know about this?


Now you mention it, I heard they had discovered oil about a year ago, but I never gave it a second thought until now. I think it's worth looking into, and well done for bringing it up.

PHIL S

[Michwlv]

I'm not sure if anyone has already talked about this subject...so i'm tossing it out like a New Kids on the Block CD. Has anyone thought about the idea of purchasing the Soa Tome and Principe currency? There was the discovery of Oil right under them...and the bigger companies have already bid on blocks of off-shore property. http://www.oanda.com/convert/fxhistory?lang=en&date1=01%2F07%2F06&date=01%2F13%2F06&date_fmt=us&exch=USD&exch2=&expr=STD&expr2=&margin_fixed=0&format=HTML&SUBMIT=Get+TableYou can check this website...if you go back to last year...the currency rates showed a little over 9,000 STD=1 USD...now it's at 7300 STD=1 USD. Not bad...Not bad at all!
Everything I read says that in the next 10 years the oil will start flowing and these guys will be rolling in it. I know they have a lot of debt but and they probably will not make it down to 1=1, but the almost 20% last year would have been worth it.

What do you guys see or know about this?
If you can find where to buy it...I'm in.:happy26:

[Michwlv]

If you can find where to buy it...I'm in.:happy26:

Found a link to their Central Bank....maybe we can contact them.

http://www.law.nyu.edu/centralbankscenter/banks/s-z.html

[Michwlv]

Found a link to their Central Bank....maybe we can contact them.

http://www.law.nyu.edu/centralbankscenter/banks/s-z.html
http://www.sao-tome.com/englisch/index.htm

More info...I emailed them and asked if the consulat in Atlanta Georgia knew if Americans could open a bank account in the country.

I asked them to send the name and telephone number of the proper bank to contact.

I'll let you know when I hear. Anyone who wants the info drop me a PM.

:happy26:

[Lux]

Yes, this does sound interesting.

Here are the import/export restrictions for local and foreign currency:

http://www02.tiglion.net/scripts/travdb/currency/exe/curr.asp?country=ST

[Lux]

Over the last year, Sao Tome's economic fortunes for its 170,000 civilians is about to change beyond belief. Call it a lottery, a fortune of good luck, but Sao Tome will become in BI.C's view one of the world's richest nation's on the planet as measured by GDP/capita. Sao Tome will be rich beyond belief due to the newly discovered vast oil wealth in the Gulf of Guinea over the last year as oil drilling commenced in October 2001 resulting in an estimated exploitable oil reserves to date of a 4 billion barrels. This siginficant turn of events has now caught the eye of the United States government.

http://www.bankintroductions.com/saotome.html

[Lux]

CURRENCY FORECAST: the discovery of massive oil reserves will change Sao Tome's future a full 180 degrees although vulnerable to external shocks in the short term until actual oil development and production takes place. Sao Tome's current heavy debt burden and reliance on foreign financial assistance will cease to exist in the years to come. Falling production levels of cocoa will be insignificant in the future of Sao Tome's oil economy. The future for the dobra is very positive with currency appreciation is widely forecasted as Sao Tome will benefit from exporting its oil reserves, balance of payments surpluses in the years to come. The long term forecast is for the dobra to move back to 1000 STD to the USD by year 2010. In order to move to stronger valuations to former trading levels such as in 1993, Sao Tome and Principe has to avoid the problems of political & oil corruption that have taken place in Nigeria, Gabon and Equatorial Guinea. BI.C believes due to Sao Tome's small geographic size and the presence of US military personnel, Sao Tome will avoid these destabilization patterns. However, it will still be a few years before actual oil begins to flow but the STD will begin to be realize stabilization and appreciation due to oil development monies arriving, etc. And even with potentially poor oil deals signed, Sao Tome's tiny economy will be swamped with hard currency cash. Our bullish scenario is for the STD to have the potential to experience one of the world's largest currency appreciations in the history of currency use. A lower risk ranking with a higher score is warranted reflecting the sound future economic fundamentals in the years to come for Sao Tome's national currency, the 'dobra'. Managed float.
UPDATED: January 15, 2003.

http://www.bankintroductions.com/saotome.html

[Lux]

BANCO INTERNACIONAL de SAO TOME e PRINCIPE (http://www.bcstp.st/inst_financ/inst_financ_bistp.htm)

http://www.infoexport.gc.ca/ifinet/financingfactsheet/ssa/saotome-e.pdf

http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/product-compint-0000484770-page.html



Articles:

SAO TOME AND PRINCIPE: Waiting for the oil boom (http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/IRIN/c8fa2a2cd59fe67df462c4342685b057.htm)

Savouring the ‘Chocolate Islands' (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20051216.wstome1217/BNStory/specialTravel/)

:huge:

[Dinar Is Served!]

BANCO INTERNACIONAL de SAO TOME e PRINCIPE (http://www.bcstp.st/inst_financ/inst_financ_bistp.htm)

http://www.infoexport.gc.ca/ifinet/financingfactsheet/ssa/saotome-e.pdf

http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/product-compint-0000484770-page.html



Articles:

SAO TOME AND PRINCIPE: Waiting for the oil boom (http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/IRIN/c8fa2a2cd59fe67df462c4342685b057.htm)

Savouring the ‘Chocolate Islands' (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20051216.wstome1217/BNStory/specialTravel/)

:huge:

Somebody get me the heck over there to trade that currency.

[JeffreyW]

Yeah, where can I buy this at?! woo hoo!

[JeffreyW]

Is this Currency even convertible??

[Lux]

I looked everywhere. Looks like a flight to me.

[Lux]

Is this Currency even convertible??

I saw this last night, but I'm analyzing the source.

http://www.intracen.org/tfs/docs/publications/tieapp6.pdf

http://www.intracen.org/default.htm

[Lux]

Here's an interesting PDF from the same source:

Currencies of the World and Exchange Rate Regimes

http://www.intracen.org/tfs/docs/publications/tieapp5.pdf

[markmopar]

very interesting!

[joeyscorpion]

I have researched this currency extensively in the past eight months. I have emailed numerous banks on Sao Tome and as yet have not gotten a response. This currency is restricted to Sao Tome, although you are allowed to carry out of the country as much currency as the currency you declare in possession when you arrive. To travel to Sao Tome you will need a yellow fever shot and a Visa. The best way to travel to Sao Tome is through Lisbon, Portugal. Flights are limited to just a couple inbound and outbound per week. Hotels and meals are fairly inexpensive on the island of Sao Tome according to the travel info I have found. If anyone has success in communicating with the banks on Sao Tome, please share whatever information you receive with the forum. The main language spoken is a form of Portugese. Overall, I believe this is an excellent investment, although the general consensus is to be aware of possible government corruption and stability. The U.S. is considering building a deep see naval port there.

[Lux]

Thanks for the info joeyscorpion.

I will try to contact them.

I have friends who speak Portuguese and they may be able to help.

[Dinar Is Served!]

Thanks for the info joeyscorpion.

I will try to contact them.

I have friends who speak Portuguese and they may be able to help.

There ya go - now we're talking!

Thanks Joe for the update there. A little bit of presence on the island would go a long way for stability.

[coky]

found this
http://www.afrilandfirstbank.com/EN-Reseau-bancaire.htm

[Lux]

Nice find coky!


It appeared a Savings Account could be open without being in person, but I'm a non-Cameroonian.


For subscription, provide

a copy of your national identity card, a passport for nationals, a residence permit is required for non-Cameroonians.
two 4x4 passport-size photographs
A minimum down payment of CFA F 200 000 (1 Euro = CFA F 655,957)http://www.afrilandfirstbank.com/EN-open-Epargne-sur-livret.htm

[he739]

Don't post a great deal but I have been looking into this venture and waiting for a response from a couple of banking establishments, I firmly believe when they pop the cork on that black gold their curreny may just take a turn for the better. Hey sportslux wouldn't you think you would be able to open an account the same way some have with Warka? What say you?

[millionairetobe71]

I will get my hands on it..where to buy it?

[Phil S]

I think it would be best to open a bank account there considering this would probably be a long term investment. I doubt it would be too hard getting banknotes out of the country if we had a contact, but if new notes were issued it would be awkward returning them and replacing them with the new banknotes.

Anyway, if you’re interested take a look at this website for Sao Tome & Principe banknotes:


http://aes.iupui.edu/rwise/countries/saint_thomas&prince.html

PHIL S

[coky]

Someone try this
http://www.bancoequador.st/beq_en/index.en.html
coky

[millionairetobe71]

I research extensively yesterday and found those banks in the research, but I guess we would either have to make a call or else. I could not figure out. They have two banks, as Coky posted, Bank of Equator and Dossier Banco Central. I could not go beyond that. I sent an email, no luck yet. Their currency is not convertible and is not sold outside, therefore, it has to come from an insider contact. There is no limit on how much you can import and export in terms of currency, but the problem is how to get it!!! Let's put the brains together on this people.......I know we can come up with something....

[Brunhilda]

http://www.africa.com/dmap/Djibouti/Shopping

[millionairetobe71]

http://www.africa.com/dmap/Djibouti/Shopping


OK...what this means??? It got nothing to do with the dobra...

[millionairetobe71]

I contacted a dealer in London and this was what they told me...

Sir,

This currency will not be supported in the retail market.

You may find a dealer in the city working for the national bank of Sao
Tome, but will not be able to gain access to their services as they
will
be purely for large multimillion pound transactions.

Does the country not use the US dollar for international transactions?
We would normally send dollars to smaller states and allow an internal
conversion to take place.

Please let me know If I can be of any more help.

Regards,

S. G.
FX Sales - Senior Dealer

I am sure it has to be a way to get the currency, somehow, someone has the way....humm.....C'mon guys, lets get together and figure this one out!!!

[Lux]

I contacted a dealer in London and this was what they told me...

Sir,

This currency will not be supported in the retail market.

You may find a dealer in the city working for the national bank of Sao
Tome, but will not be able to gain access to their services as they
will
be purely for large multimillion pound transactions.

Does the country not use the US dollar for international transactions?
We would normally send dollars to smaller states and allow an internal
conversion to take place.

Please let me know If I can be of any more help.

Regards,

S. G.
FX Sales - Senior Dealer

I am sure it has to be a way to get the currency, somehow, someone has the way....humm.....C'mon guys, lets get together and figure this one out!!!

This is truly progress. I've got my thinking cap on too. I've been very busy lately so I haven't been able to turn over some stones.

[Brunhilda]

OK...what this means??? It got nothing to do with the dobra...

It means you are barking up the wrong tree...

[mawilso24]

This definitely sounds like a good idea. I have been trying to find some info on the web about this currency. Does anyone know, where I can find up to date pics of thier currency? I am just worried that if there was some dobra on the web to buy, would it be current? For example, post war dinar or pre war dinar. Someone who didn't know about the dinar and was told to buy some a couple years ago, might have made a mistake and bought 5 million pre-war saddam notes thinking they just made a smart investment. So if anyone knows a site that shows what the up-to-date dobra currency looks like, please let me know or give a link. Thanks.

[Joe D_inar]

This definitely sounds like a good idea. I have been trying to find some info on the web about this currency. Does anyone know, where I can find up to date pics of thier currency? I am just worried that if there was some dobra on the web to buy, would it be current? For example, post war dinar or pre war dinar. Someone who didn't know about the dinar and was told to buy some a couple years ago, might have made a mistake and bought 5 million pre-war saddam notes thinking they just made a smart investment. So if anyone knows a site that shows what the up-to-date dobra currency looks like, please let me know or give a link. Thanks.
Mawilso24 see post # 29 above it shows the dobra notes.

[millionairetobe71]

It means you are barking up the wrong tree...

Ok..."smartie"...lets see if you can use some of your abilities and post what is all about then...


The link has nothing to do with the dobra. Point. If it is, then show me. My understanding about Africa, since at least I understand something about geographic.... "Brunhilda"...is that Djibouti is located in the NORTHERN EASTERN of the African region, while Sao Tome and Principe are located in the WESTERN part of the African region...You get it now......two different places...and Djibouti and Sao Tome sounds very different too....


I already check anything that deals with the dobra, I even have the search engine to get the address, email address and phone numbers for the business in Sao Tome, HOWEVER, it is already established that the currency is not traded outside of the islands, so the best we can do is to find a source that can get it. Unless they sell the currency in eBay....I don't know yet, but surely we will find it.

Moderator Note

Responses split to:

http://www.investorsiraq.com/other-investments/13984-middle-east-vs-africa.html

[Joe D_inar]

Ok..."smartie"...lets see if you can use some of your abilities and post what is all about then...


The link has nothing to do with the dobra. Point. If it is, then show me. My understanding about Africa, since at least I understand something about geographic.... "Brunhilda"...is that Djibouti is located in the NORTHERN EASTERN of the African region, while Sao Tome and Principe are located in the WESTERN part of the African region...You get it now......two different places...and Djibouti and Sao Tome sounds very different too....


I already check anything that deals with the dobra, I even have the search engine to get the address, email address and phone numbers for the business in Sao Tome, HOWEVER, it is already established that the currency is not traded outside of the islands, so the best we can do is to find a source that can get it. Unless they sell the currency in eBay....I don't know yet, but surely we will find it.
Mill tb B..at this time not worth flying there either, i found airfare rates of about $4800 to $5200 from Cinn, Oh. the closest major airport to me.This is a problem we must solve..How to aquire Dobra at a fair rate. lets all work together !!!!!!!

[Joe D_inar]

Ok..."smartie"...lets see if you can use some of your abilities and post what is all about then...


The link has nothing to do with the dobra. Point. If it is, then show me. My understanding about Africa, since at least I understand something about geographic.... "Brunhilda"...is that Djibouti is located in the NORTHERN EASTERN of the African region, while Sao Tome and Principe are located in the WESTERN part of the African region...You get it now......two different places...and Djibouti and Sao Tome sounds very different too....


I already check anything that deals with the dobra, I even have the search engine to get the address, email address and phone numbers for the business in Sao Tome, HOWEVER, it is already established that the currency is not traded outside of the islands, so the best we can do is to find a source that can get it. Unless they sell the currency in eBay....I don't know yet, but surely we will find it.
Mill tb B..at this time not worth flying there either, i found airfare rates of about $4800 to $5200 from Cinn, Oh. the closest major airport to me.This is a problem we must solve..How to aquire Dobra at a fair rate. lets all work together !!!!!!!

[coky]

http://uploader.clausercorp.com/uploaded/thinkinCap2.jpg

Im Thinking..... Im Thinking
coky:happy64:

[coky]

http://coinmill.com/IQD_STD.html

Dinars to Dobras.... Lets start dreaming
coky

[onenomad]

http://coinmill.com/IQD_STD.html

Dinars to Dobras.... Lets start dreaming
coky

:happy64: nice one

[markmopar]

there is some listed on eBay. $5 for a 500 note.

not a good deal as 5 bucks is over 36k in dobra.

[millionairetobe71]

there is some listed on eBay. $5 for a 500 note.

not a good deal as 5 bucks is over 36k in dobra.


Yeap, that is right...the exchange rate is 7,346 dobras or something close to it per dollar...what that could be is one of those collectible currencies already out of circulation, but I don't know...I haven't seen it yet.....

I sent emails to the bank as well...see what happen...if some one wants to make a call, let me know, I will give the phone numbers to the different branches...I am limited in calls since I am in Iraq...so someone let me know...

[justin082005]

Just wanted to thank you guys for the information. Have been reading through it all and following this thread. I will keep an eye out for anything I might see on it

:happy64:

[millionairetobe71]

http://uploader.clausercorp.com/uploaded/thinkinCap2.jpg

Im Thinking..... Im Thinking
coky:happy64:


Coky, did your brain lit up already??

Any thoughts yet?

Have you thought of anything?

Any idea?

Something came to your mind?

Any suggestion?

Any plan?

Did you came up with something?

:happy64: I know you did!!! C'mon, C'mon, C'mon.......

[Lux]

Back to the subject please

Tropical jungles with wondrous exotic birds, trees and flowers, remote golden beaches and volcanic mountains in the rainforest offer breathtaking scenery for a holiday that goes beyond the usual. A friendly population in stable democratic conditions guarantees that you can discover Africa according to your own ideas in the microcosm of this unique island world.

Forget the Caribbean, Mauritius and the Maldives! Like the sea explorers of 500 years ago, discover a land far from mass tourism; discover the incomparable beauty of this nature-rich island. Come and see, and then judge for yourselves.


http://www.sao-tome.com/englisch/index.htm

:wave:

[sogrgirl]

I have an idea!! everyone can pitch in (unless the dinar revals on monday) and help the sogrs buy their sailboat!! then we can be your source for dobras!! :happy64:


(no, really, I am serious..)

[mawilso24]

So lets say/dream that 5 years from now the dobra is worth .50 to the american dollar. If I was able to obtain a large quantity of the dobra, and it never acutally hit the market, could I still cash in for american dollars. Basically, if .50 was the rate it was worth only in Sao Tome, could I still fly to the country and cash in my money for dollars?

[coky]

Coky, did your brain lit up already??

Any thoughts yet?

Have you thought of anything?

Any idea?

Something came to your mind?

Any suggestion?

Any plan?

Did you came up with something?

:happy64: I know you did!!! C'mon, C'mon, C'mon.......

I was thinking of invading Sao Tome, but..... nah
coky

[darcblue]

If anyone is interested, I use to own stock in a company called ERHE.ob that won oil right's in that region. But as the area began to become more and more hostile I sold my stock until it gets under control. If you do a search regarding the company you will find out which other major oil companies are in the area.

[millionairetobe71]

I sent several email to the banks in Sao Tome....lets see what happens..

[coky]

I have an idea!! everyone can pitch in (unless the dinar revals on monday) and help the sogrs buy their sailboat!! then we can be your source for dobras!! :happy64:


(no, really, I am serious..)
http://www.jackbox.biz/toy/playsam/14712.jpg

this is all i have
coky:happy64:

[Phil S]

Alright it looks as though it would be awkward opening a bank account. I just had a thought, every few years the Bank of England issue new banknotes and I suppose the old ones are no longer considered legal tender. But if you send the old notes to the Bank of England they will always redeem them, even pre-decimal notes. Does anyone know if this is also true in Sao Tome & Principe?

P.S Coky you’re hilarious.

PHIL S

[coky]

Someone wants to try the diplomatic way and ask for information ?
http://www.traveldocs.com/st/embassy.htm

http://www.saotome.org/Page_1x.html

coky

[Phil S]

I've found some Sao Tome & Principe banknotes in small numbers on UK Ebay. They're pretty expensive though:

50,000 Dobras - £18.98
10,000 Dobras - £6.98
5,000 Dobras - £3.98
1,000 Dobras - £3.35

http://search.stores.ebay.co.uk/a2zbanknotes-com_st-thomas_W0QQfcdZ2QQfciZ0QQfclZ3QQfromZR10QQfsnZa2zb anknotesQ2dcomQQfsooZ1QQfsopZ1QQftsZ2QQsaselZ56505 962QQsofpZ0

PHIL S

[coky]

Here another
http://www.fco.gov.uk/servlet/Front?pagename=OpenMarket/Xcelerate/ShowPage&c=Page&cid=1007029396086&a=KDiplomaticList&aid=1013618543786
coky

[coky]

me again
http://www.mbendi.co.za/orgs/cem6.htm
coky

[millionairetobe71]

This is dated December 2002, but I found it quite interesting.....

If it's consummated, it will be a marriage of convenience. The United States wants to lessen reliance on Middle Eastern fuel; Sao Tome has huge unexploited oil deposits. Sao Tome, for its part, wants protection against Nigeria, which already covets an oil-rich territory belonging to another neighbor, Cameroon. That's why Sao Tome has invited the United States to install a naval base on the islands.

Sub-Saharan Africa supplies about 15 percent of U.S. oil, roughly as much as Saudi Arabia does. No wonder President Bush is planning to visit the region early next year


http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/natres/oil/2002/1211lure.htm

[millionairetobe71]

..And more important information....


One of Africa's poorest countries, São Tomé has what is believed to be enormous untapped off-shore oil reserves—an estimated 6 billion barrels that are expected to begin flowing by 2007 or 2008. Businessman Fradique de Menezes won the presidential election in 2001. In July 2003, a military coup deposed Menezes while he was out of the country. International pressure resulted in Menezes's restoration to the presidency a week later.


http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0107943.html

[millionairetobe71]

And More......!!!

Sao Tome is one of the world's poorest countries. It's a former Portuguese colony isolated 180 miles off the western coast of Africa. Geologic surveys report the island could be sitting on billions of barrels of oil. Some say the oil could make millionaires out of every islander.





hmm,.....interesting....

http://americanradioworks.publicradio.org/features/corruption/c1.html

[he739]

Well folks, I have done a little research on some of the posts here on this matter, here is a little text on a reply I received from this banking establishment, quote,

We need to know where you reside presently.
I hope you are in Cameroon or you hope to be here frequently.
To open an account you need to talk with somebody.
This is because there are several other account types that can be
more beneficial depending on exactly your intensions and means.

However if you are bent on opening a savings account, then what
you need is listed below:


2 passport size photographs.
1 certified copy of your ID or Passport.
A minimum of CFA 200000 frs.

You also need to fill the account opening booklet(on the spot) Looks like a trip to this rock just might be in the future, any one interested in further details PM me and I will pass you an email for a P.O.C. this bank has a head quarters in Cameroon, you would still be able to invest in the Dobra, but may have to make a trip out there to sign paper work, just my two fils worth ;)

[sogrgirl]

I have some emails out to a couple of the international banks I have been dealing with, but no responses as yet, I will let you know if they have anything interesting to say...

Hey, Coky! this is what I had in mind:

[sogrgirl]

judging by the area that sao tome is located in, I am thinking we would want to be transporting large amounts of cash in something more like this: (007's Thunderball yacht....)

[goldraker]

I knew I should'nt have sold my yaht!

[coky]

http://www.worldnewsstand.net/2002/article/rowing.gif
I just cant wait to open that account in Sao Tome
coky

[Michwlv]

http://www.worldnewsstand.net/2002/article/rowing.gif
I just cant wait to open that account in Sao Tome
coky

Ok I have a bank that will open an account for us. Its a Portugese bank with a branch in Sao Tome and with rights to do business on the island.

I am having them checked out by a government friend as we speak.

They will only do business with a company...NOT individuals.

So anyone who is interested in joining an LLC send me a PM. We will put a group together.

But keep in mind this is most likely an investment of 2 or MORE years.

But all that being said...I think it will be worth it. If the dinar revals in the meantime...it will be all gravy!

PS Anyone here read Portugese???????????????? I can't read the sign up forms!!!! The guy at the bank said he would fill them out for me but I would rather have a 3rd party observer help me. Thanks in Advance.

[coky]

http://www.softlab.ece.ntua.gr/~sivann/pub/funnypics/stranded.jpg

Come on Guys and Gals lets not let this one be stranded
coky

[sogrgirl]

http://www.softlab.ece.ntua.gr/~sivann/pub/funnypics/stranded.jpg

Come on Guys and Gals lets not let this one be stranded
coky


there is no way I am letting this one get stranded!! just waiting for the banks I contacted to send me answers. !!!! This looks to be BIG. bigger than the dinar, methinks :huge:

[coky]

http://www.infomanage.com/middleeast/business/browse.php?id=942

Maybe Peter can help us in some way
coky

[sogrgirl]

http://www.infomanage.com/middleeast/business/browse.php?id=942

Maybe Peter can help us in some way
coky

except Peter wrote this in november 2003. and his links are interesting. ultra-liberal links and conspiracy theory links... hmm. who IS this guy???

okay, who is going to volunteer to contact this person? can't be me, sorry. :lmao: (inside joke)

[BRYAN]

https://www.uktradeinvest.gov.uk/ukti/appmanager/ukti/centralafrica?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=saoTomeAndPrincipe

http://dosfan.lib.uic.edu/ERC/bgnotes/af/saotome9108.html

http://www.irinnews.org/S_report.asp?ReportID=50653&SelectRegion=West_Africa

http://www.gasandoil.com/goc/company/cna60212.htm

[BRYAN]

http://www.doingbusiness.org/ExploreTopics/

http://www.doingbusiness.org/ExploreTopics/StartingBusiness/Details.aspx?economyid=162

http://www.internationalentrepreneurship.com/african+entrepreneurship/Sao-Tome_entrepreneur.asp?countryid=99&contid=1

PROPERTY FOR SALE !!!!
http://www.viviun.com/Real_Estate/Sao_Tome_and_Principe/

4.5 MILLION ....??

OTHER PROPERTIES
http://www.viviun.com/Real_Estate/Sao_Tome_and_Principe/By_Type/

WANT TO TAKE A TRIP ....
http://www.tripadvisor.com/Resources-g294441-Maps-Sao_Tome_and_Principe.html

PLACES TO VISIT
http://travel-island.com/interestingplaces/sao_tome_principe.html

[GotDinar?]

Ok, I am convenced. I will take an intital $250 worth when anyone finds out how to get it.

[GotDinar?]

I just wrote to the consulate on how to get this done. I will post more info when he contacts me.;)

[onenomad]

I just wrote to the consulate on how to get this done. I will post more info when he contacts me.;)

nice one would the process be the same for British Investors?

[GotDinar?]

i would think so.

[markmopar]

any new developments?

[Joe D_inar]

Bumpity bump !!!! Whats going on with this ??????

[joeyscorpion]

What is the name of the Portugese bank you found? Do you also have their phone number and email address?

[boddi]

Hey there,

I can't access "other investments" so I am trying here. I may be headed to Europe this spring and I am considering a side trip to Cameroon or Sao Tome. I am new to this, and would like to know what I should look into while I am there, or what I can do for the effort. I am still researching the potential of the Dobra and any input would be helpful.

[sogrgirl]

Hey there,

I can't access "other investments" so I am trying here. I may be headed to Europe this spring and I am considering a side trip to Cameroon or Sao Tome. I am new to this, and would like to know what I should look into while I am there, or what I can do for the effort. I am still researching the potential of the Dobra and any input would be helpful.


wow, lucky you!! :D if i were you, i would be opening a bank account in sao tome!

[Michwlv]

Here is the deal...it will not be necessary to form an LLC everyone can open an account on Sao Tome with a minimum of 1K.

However, there are a few legal hoops that you must jump through including having your passport approved by the Sao Tome Embassy in NY and having a person on Sao Tome to act as your agent with the account.

I have found that agent on Sao Tome. The gentleman is an attorney and is willing to set up the accounts.

However, I must go to NY and have my passport and POA stamped by the Embassy.

Once that is finished I will let you know how wiring the money went.

[aaaack]

Here is the deal...it will not be necessary to form an LLC everyone can open an account on Sao Tome with a minimum of 1K.

However, there are a few legal hoops that you must jump through including having your passport approved by the Sao Tome Embassy in NY and having a person on Sao Tome to act as your agent with the account.

I have found that agent on Sao Tome. The gentleman is an attorney and is willing to set up the accounts.

However, I must go to NY and have my passport and POA stamped by the Embassy.

Once that is finished I will let you know how wiring the money went.

Thank you for exploring and letting us know what you find out. What's in it for this attorney to do this? Are you wiring directly to the bank or through the attorney?

I can't wait to complete this process, the rate is going down on a daily basis which is much more than can be said about the dinar.

[Moonlight]

The dobra seems to be big. I wonder what is the procedure for Canadians. If you know, Michwlv, please reply to my post. Also could you PM the Portuguese bank's phone number to me. Thanks in advance.

[Moonlight]

Could you tell me what are the procedures for Canadians Michwlv. And also please PM the Portuguese phone number to me, thanks in advance.

[dlp]

Here is the deal...it will not be necessary to form an LLC everyone can open an account on Sao Tome with a minimum of 1K.

However, there are a few legal hoops that you must jump through including having your passport approved by the Sao Tome Embassy in NY and having a person on Sao Tome to act as your agent with the account.

I have found that agent on Sao Tome. The gentleman is an attorney and is willing to set up the accounts.

However, I must go to NY and have my passport and POA stamped by the Embassy.

Once that is finished I will let you know how wiring the money went.


What is POA? What are they stamping it for, what is the procedure? This investment is sounding pretty good!

[joeyscorpion]

Could you please provide the phone number and name of the bank you found in Portugal with a branch in Sao Tome?

[Aunt Gwennie]

What is POA? What are they stamping it for, what is the procedure? This investment is sounding pretty good!

Power of Attorney

[goldraker]

Be careful!!!!!! POA Means they can access your funds!

[botso]

Here's the link for the Central Bank of Sao Tome & Principe.

http://www.bcstp.st/

I think investing in the dobra is an idea with legs...

[botso]

http://www.bcstp.st/inst_financ/bancos_comerciais.htm

[Lux]

Value has risen from nearly 8000:1 in August '05.

http://www.advfn.com/p.php?pid=webchart&period=5&size=19&symbol=FX^USDSTD
(http://www.advfn.com/p.php?pid=fxcharts&cb=1141173030&symbol=FX%5EUSDSTD&redir=1&cb=1141173026&symbol_search=FX%3AUSDSTD)

[Michwlv]

Be careful!!!!!! POA Means they can access your funds!

There is such a thing as a limited POA which instructs the bank to allow the bearer to open an account.

However, the gentlemen that will act as my POA is an attorney that has excellent creditials. That is the least of my worries.

Now if you all will wait just a bit longer I will be able to post how you all can follow in my footsteps.

Canadians too!!

I just want to go through the process and make sure its legit before I put your money on the hook. Believe me I am just trying to see to it that I don't give info that makes anyone lose money.

Don't worry I'm not going to sell you guys the info. What I find I will post freely for the board...once I have walked it through.

I saw somebody posted the link to the Sao Tome Central bank...don't waste your time with that, I have been told they won't do accounts for foreigners. If you have a business and minimum 25K let me know and I have a contact for you. Otherwise, wait and I will have a bank that will do 1K at a time...that is the least I can get anyone to accept via overseas.

Anyone has better info....please share....between us all we will figure something out!

[Lux]

There is such a thing as a limited POA which instructs the bank to allow the bearer to open an account.

However, the gentlemen that will act as my POA is an attorney that has excellent creditials. That is the least of my worries.

Now if you all will wait just a bit longer I will be able to post how you all can follow in my footsteps.

Canadians too!!

I just want to go through the process and make sure its legit before I put your money on the hook. Believe me I am just trying to see to it that I don't give info that makes anyone lose money.

Don't worry I'm not going to sell you guys the info. What I find I will post freely for the board...once I have walked it through.

I saw somebody posted the link to the Sao Tome Central bank...don't waste your time with that, I have been told they won't do accounts for foreigners. If you have a business and minimum 25K let me know and I have a contact for you. Otherwise, wait and I will have a bank that will do 1K at a time...that is the least I can get anyone to accept via overseas.

Anyone has better info....please share....between us all we will figure something out!

Great work Michwlv! This looks promising.

[Michwlv]

Great work Michwlv! This looks promising.

Maybe once I have it all figured out you guys could give us a forum spot?

:huge:

[Lux]

Maybe once I have it all figured out you guys could give us a forum spot?

:huge:

With all the attention, it may have too!

:happy64:

[soyd]

This is definitely NOT an opportunity to be sniffed at. I'll be contacting my Nigerian affiliates on further investigation.

[soyd]

Done some checking around..it appears this would be a *very very* long term investment [if you intend to get wealthy with just the currency that is]. There is quite a lot of development needed. They've got no Stock Exchange, infrastructural deficiencies, few indigenous companies so there are very limited instruments of intrinsic value which one can purchase with the Dobra.

A resonable strategy would be to purchase the shares of the oil companies assigned with exploration rights while holding about $1-2K in the local currency as an insurance.

SD.

[WilliamMunny]

Done some checking around..it appears this would be a *very very* long term investment [if you intend to get wealthy with just the currency that is]. There is quite a lot of development needed. They've got no Stock Exchange, infrastructural deficiencies, few indigenous companies so there are very limited instruments of intrinsic value which one can purchase with the Dobra.

A resonable strategy would be to purchase the shares of the oil companies assigned with exploration rights while holding about $1-2K in the local currency as an insurance.

SD.

...but isn't it really the exchange rate we'd be interested in?...
Isn't Bermuda the same way?...very few companies, but a high exchange rate?....
If Sao Tome has as much oil as they say, won't they just become another Dubai or similar?...

[aaaack]

All that needs to happen for this to be very worth it is for the value to return to where it was during the 90s, at or below 1:1000.

[Michwlv]

This is definitely NOT an opportunity to be sniffed at. I'll be contacting my Nigerian affiliates on further investigation.

Unless you know them well be careful.

[Lux]

Maybe once I have it all figured out you guys could give us a forum spot?
:huge:

Well we got it in a Currency & Forex Forum now.

We'll be needing a separate forum soon!

:happy64:Go Dobra! Go Dobra!:happy64:

[Hue Mi]

This is definitely NOT an opportunity to be sniffed at. I'll be contacting my Nigerian affiliates on further investigation. Renowned psychiatrist duped by Nigerian scam

March 3, 2006 - 11:00AM
A renowned psychiatrist lost up to $US3 million over 10 years to a Nigerian internet scam, his son alleges in a lawsuit.
http://www.theage.com.au/news/breaking/renowned-psychiatrist-duped-by-nigerians/2006/03/03/1141191816776.html

[soyd]

...but isn't it really the exchange rate we'd be interested in?...
Isn't Bermuda the same way?...very few companies, but a high exchange rate?....
If Sao Tome has as much oil as they say, won't they just become another Dubai or similar?...

I see your point "WillM.", with a population of under 200,000 an oil boom would make every Sao Tomean stupendously moneyed. I also realise that I did not make clear in the previous post that I was contemplating investing with a hedge and capital growth while waiting for currency appreciation.

There are issues with which the country has to deal before a truly significant currency revaluation is achieved. See UN Source Here:

http://www.irinnews.org/S_report.asp?ReportID=50653&SelectRegion=West_Africa

excerpt below
Once the big inflow of oil revenues to government coffers does start – probably sometime between 2015 and 2017 – Sao Tome may well receive several hundred million dollars per year.

Does this put my thoughts in better light?

To Michwlv and Hue Mi..
Thanks for caring
Renowned psychiatrist duped by Nigerian scam

March 3, 2006 - 11:00AM
A renowned psychiatrist lost up to $US3 million over 10 years to a Nigerian internet scam, his son alleges in a lawsuit.

Unless you know them well be careful.However Nigerians are pretty harmless to me, primarily because I am one. Being born and raised there i'm working as an insider. This is not to say that as a whole we've been accurately represented internationally by a dishonest minority nevertheless thanks again, I appreciate your looking out for me.

SD.

[aaaack]

I see your point "WillM.", with a population of under 200,000 an oil boom would make every Sao Tomean stupendously moneyed. I also realise that I did not make clear in the previous post that I was contemplating investing with a hedge and capital growth while waiting for currency appreciation.

There are issues with which the country has to deal before a truly significant currency revaluation is achieved. See UN Source Here:

http://www.irinnews.org/S_report.asp?ReportID=50653&SelectRegion=West_Africa

excerpt below
Does this put my thoughts in better light?

To Michwlv and Hue Mi..
Thanks for caring

However Nigerians are pretty harmless to me, primarily because I am one. Being born and raised there i'm working as an insider. This is not to say that as a whole we've been accurately represented internationally by a dishonest minority nevertheless thanks again, I appreciate your looking out for me.

SD.

Thanks for the article.

The currency is already revaluing on a continual and steady basis. With the economic future of the country so bright there's no reason why the value would not fall back to less than 1 USD:1000, which is where it used to be, from 7000 where it is now.

[BRYAN]

http://www.navetur-equatour.st/Travel_planning.htm

Take note to the vaccines you will need and what types of illness you might get...

The currency is allowed to flow in and out of the country , But the currency is convertable ONLY IN SAO TOME and PRINCIPE. IMHO if invested in this currency, I would use a broker or some other means of trading the currency.... Without ever entering the country..Just to be safe and Healthy

[Lux]

But the currency is convertable ONLY IN SAO TOME and PRINCIPE.

Sounds like another currency I know. ;)

[Moonlight]

Michwlv,
What is the name of the Portuguese bank in Portuagal that can open an account for us. I am planning a trip to Portugal in April, and can check them out while I am there. Thanks.
Moonlight

[joeyscorpion]

Michwlv, Come on man, give up the name to the Portugese bank which has the branch in Sao Tome also.

[MR. VEGAS]

Any new info or perspective on Sao Tome?

[Joe D_inar]

Any thing new on the Dobra ?????????

[Joe D_inar]

Any new info or perspective on Sao Tome?
Hi Mr Vegas. Wow small world...My older brother lives in Castro Valley,Ca too!!!!!!!!!! Welcome to the forums !!!!!!!

[MR. VEGAS]

Hey JoeD inar, Is your brother a dinar investor also? Is he on this forum also? Thanks for the welcome.

[Joe D_inar]

Hey JoeD inar, Is your brother a dinar investor also? Is he on this forum also? Thanks for the welcome.
No he is not on this forum or a dinar investor. But its a small world anyway. I went to high school just over the hill from you in San Leandro in the 70's. I really like the prospects of the Dobra. It just might be longer term than the dinar.

[trusty]

Announced today
(IMF) concluded the Article IV consultation with São Tomé and Príncipe
On March 6, 2006, the Executive Board of the International Monetary Fund (IMF) concluded the Article IV consultation with São Tomé and Príncipe.

http://www.imf.org/external/np/sec/pn/2006/pn0636.htm

Trusty

[MR. VEGAS]

Joe D inar I was a Canyon HS Grad class of '77'.

[Joe D_inar]

Joe D inar I was a Canyon HS Grad class of '77'.
Yes it is a small world. I graduated in '75' from Pacific High in SL . Good luck!!!!!

[aaaack]

Maybe once I have it all figured out you guys could give us a forum spot?

:huge:

Is there anything new you can tell us about your efforts? A lot of people are itching to invest I hope someone can find a way.

[Wildbill]

I have found a place to purchase some of that Chinese currency.
If anyone knows of a place to get the Sao Tome currency, I would be interested in joining forces and offering baskets of Yaun, Soa Tome and Dinar. A noce little specultive basket of currencies.

[Joe D_inar]

Maybe once I have it all figured out you guys could give us a forum spot?

:huge:
Hi Michwlv anything new on the dobra?? Thanks, Joe D

[Dinar-Dreamer]

Any new info on the Dobra? We need Dobra! Thanks guys...interesting thread.

[coky]

Any new info on the Dobra? We need Dobra! Thanks guys...interesting thread.

Welcome Dinar-Dreamer to the ¨Those who are waiting for the Dobra club¨
Just take a seat and wait.....wait.....wait.....wait......
coky

[Joe D_inar]

Here is the deal...it will not be necessary to form an LLC everyone can open an account on Sao Tome with a minimum of 1K.

However, there are a few legal hoops that you must jump through including having your passport approved by the Sao Tome Embassy in NY and having a person on Sao Tome to act as your agent with the account.

I have found that agent on Sao Tome. The gentleman is an attorney and is willing to set up the accounts.

However, I must go to NY and have my passport and POA stamped by the Embassy.

Once that is finished I will let you know how wiring the money went.
Bumpity, Bump Michwlv whats been going on with the dobra? Any new news? Thanks Joe D

[fosking]

Bump, I need Dobra :D

[Joe D_inar]

Bump, I need Dobra :D
Yeah me too, HELP !!!!!!!!

[Dinar_OS]

Have never asked about the Soa Tome Dobra but have bought Chinese Yaun, Russian Ruble at Travelux at a better rate than at banks. A little better rate, but every penny counts.

http://www.travelex.com/us/

Travellex Locations: Physical locations, telephone numbers, check if there is one in a city near you. (Where I go, like it in person)

http://www.travelex.com/us/personal/usbranch.asp

When I call my local office and order, pick-up the next day and pay at that time. Personal check limit is $2000.00. No questions asked other than the standard ID.

Hope this helps.

[Riceboi]

Does anyone know if there is a way to get the Dobra besides traveling there?

[craftech]

Hi to all interested

I've browsed through this foum and decided to register. I've been travelling to and fro Sao Tome for the past 2 years due to business. I am currently planning to emigrate to Sao Tome, currently South African citizen.

My next visit to Sao Tome will be end Oct 2006 to set up an office. If you guys are interested I can investigate the feasibility and possibility for opening an investment account with one or more of the local banks (Commercial Bank Sao Tome e Pricipe / National Investment Bank S.A / Banco Equador / Banco Internacional de Sao Tome e Principe / Afriland First Bank).

My suggestion is to operate this investment account like a standard insurance investment. I do not know how the new International FICA law will influence the possibility for offshore investors.

If you are interested you can contact me via e-mail or telephone (see profile).

Any other suggestions how to legally operate such an investment account are welcome?

[mnatividad]

Not sure if this has been posted yet. Sounds interesting.

http://www.macauhub.com.mo/en/news.php?ID=1841

[craftech]

I had some quick response to my previous mail. I will put all interested parties' e-mail addresses in my data base and correspond personally after I done the necessary research during end October 2006 when I visit Sao Tome. I also had a lot of inquierires from local South African forex investors. On my next trip to Sao Tome I will open a second account for investment purposes only.

[poomaker]

My friend who turned me onto the Dinar, told me that once the US is done with the Dinar/Iraq, that the dobra was next. You can count me in.

[poomaker]

I had some quick response to my previous mail. I will put all interested parties' e-mail addresses in my data base and correspond personally after I done the necessary research during end October 2006 when I visit Sao Tome. I also had a lot of inquierires from local South African forex investors. On my next trip to Sao Tome I will open a second account for investment purposes only.

If you can Craftech, plz post any new info on the forum as well.

[craftech]

Over the next few weeks I will set up meetings with different banks in Sao Tome as well as with a Lawyer that I've been in contact with in the past. These meetings will obviously only take place during end Oct / beginning Nov 2006 at Sao Tome. If by any means possible I will even try and set up a meeting with Maria Tebus Torres (Finance Minister of Sao Tome).

I will in the interim get some local forex investor's advice on how to, and structuring a legal investor's account on Sao Tome. Most probably in the form of a private company. As soon as some structure is compiled I will post it on this forum for further comments and advice.

I've tried to attached a pdf file, outlining an I.M.F (International Monetary Fund) report dated 14 Aug 2006 regarding Sao Tome, but it is too large. Those interested can e-mail me for a copy.

[craftech]

POSITIVE: With an estimated 4 billion barrels of oil at $68 USD/barrell at current market conditions represents an enormous $272 billion USD in oil wealth for Sao Tome and Principe. During year 2002, President Menezes met with U.S. President George W. Bush in New York along with the United States military having meetings with Sao Tome officials including a visit from a U.S. general to discuss security issues. It is now the desire by the U.S. to build a naval base at Sao Tome. This will be a huge monetary contribution to the Sao Tome economy not to mention provide for stability and security of its vast oil reserves. In return, the United States will secure future oil supplies for its markets back home in the continental United States and allow it to diversify away from the volatile Middle East. The development of oil resources in the Gulf of Guinea by Western corporations such as Exxon Mobil will bring large volumes of hard currency to Sao Tome in the form of business tourist arrivals, construction and development of offshore oil reserves. It is highly likely with U.S. involvement that the US-dollar will become a parallel currency to the dobra or outright US-dollarization may take place in the future.

CURRENCY FORECAST: the discovery of massive oil reserves will change Sao Tome's future a full 180 degrees although vulnerable to external shocks in the short term until actual oil development and production takes place. Sao Tome's current heavy debt burden and reliance on foreign financial assistance will cease to exist in the years to come. Falling production levels of cocoa will be insignificant in the future of Sao Tome's oil economy. The future for the dobra is very positive with currency appreciation is widely forecasted as Sao Tome will benefit from exporting its oil reserves, balance of payments surpluses in the years to come. The long term forecast is for the dobra to move back to 1000 STD to the USD by year 2010. In order to move to stronger valuations to former trading levels such as in 1993 (USD1.00 = STD430), Sao Tome and Principe has to avoid the problems of political & oil corruption that have taken place in Nigeria, Gabon and Equatorial Guinea. BI.C believes due to Sao Tome's small geographic size and the presence of US military personnel, Sao Tome will avoid these destabilization patterns. However, it will still be a few years before actual oil begins to flow but the STD will begin to be realize stabilization and appreciation due to oil development monies arriving, etc. And even with potentially poor oil deals signed, Sao Tome's tiny economy will be swamped with hard currency cash. Our bullish scenario is for the STD to have the potential to experience one of the world's largest currency appreciations in the history of currency use. A lower risk ranking with a higher score is warranted reflecting the sound future economic fundamentals in the years to come for Sao Tome's national currency, the 'dobra'. Managed float.

[craftech]

FX 01 Sep 2006 US$1.00 = STD8998.21
IMF Executive Board Completes Second Review Under São Tomé and Príncipe's Three-Year PRGF Arrangement and Approves US$600,000 Disbursement
Press Release No. 06/180
August 17, 2006
The Executive Board of the International Monetary Fund (IMF) completed on August 2 the second review of São Tomé and Príncipe's economic performance under a three-year Poverty Reduction and Growth Facility (PRGF) arrangement. The completion of the review, which was undertaken on a lapse of time basis1, enabled the release of an amount equivalent to SDR 0.4 million (about US$600,000), bringing total disbursements under the arrangement to SDR 1.27 million (about US$1.9 million). Those interested in Letter of Intent addressed to the IMF, signed by Maria Torres finance minister of ST, send me an e-mail requesting this document in pdf.

[aaaack]

Kuwait's oil reserves: 96 billion
Sao Tome and Principe's oil reserves: 4 billion

Kuwait's area and population:17,818 and 2,687,000
Sao Tome and Principe's area and population: 964 and 157,000

Sao Tome and Principe's oil to population ratio: .000411 billion barrels/person
Kuwait's oil to population ratio: .000036 billion barrels/person

Sao Tome and Principe's oil to area ratio: .0041
Kuwait's oil to area ratio: .0054

[Joe D_inar]

Kuwait's oil reserves: 96 billion
Sao Tome and Principe's oil reserves: 4 billion

Kuwait's area and population:17,818 and 2,687,000
Sao Tome and Principe's area and population: 964 and 157,000

Sao Tome and Principe's oil to population ratio: .000411 billion barrels/person
Kuwait's oil to population ratio: .000036 billion barrels/person

Sao Tome and Principe's oil to area ratio: .0041
Kuwait's oil to area ratio: .0054
Thanks, Interesting info ...Lots of potential if its done right !!!!

[craftech]

According to a source in ST the future oil revenues have been protected in an unique oil revenue management law that protects them from suffering the same fate of all the neighbours where oil wealth has all been squandered by corrupt leaders.

Sao Tome e Principe potential oil revenues go immediately into a "Permanent Fund" at the Federal Reserve in New York, with five signatures needed to move the money (President, Prime Minister, Minister of Finance,President of the National Assembly, and Governor of the Central Bank).

It is impossible that all five of these portfolios would be from the same political party or would be able to pull-off illegal movements without the Federal Reserve's notice.

[Joe D_inar]

According to a source in ST the future oil revenues have been protected in an unique oil revenue management law that protects them from suffering the same fate of all the neighbours where oil wealth has all been squandered by corrupt leaders.

Sao Tome e Principe potential oil revenues go immediately into a "Permanent Fund" at the Federal Reserve in New York, with five signatures needed to move the money (President, Prime Minister, Minister of Finance,President of the National Assembly, and Governor of the Central Bank).

It is impossible that all five of these portfolios would be from the same political party or would be able to pull-off illegal movements without the Federal Reserve's notice.
That should take care of it !!!!!!!!

[craftech]

Sao Tome and Principe has a liberalized and an imports-dependent economy. There are no restrictions on investment by foreigners in private companies/activities.

Exchange currency operations are liberalized provided they are carried out trough
national commercial banks or exchange bureaus/agencies. In addition, repatriation of foreign investor profits is possible, subject, however, to income tax. The import/export licensing procedures are bureaucratic, complex and slow, and the processing and storage facilities are very poor.

Although STP has a small, open and dependent on imports and external financial
assistance economy, the country is positioning to be a regional-oriented trading center, as a result of the islands’ geographical location. For this purpose, several procedural and legal reforms are undergoing to meet the 2 large infrastructure investments on a project finance/public private partnership concession basis: (i) the extension and modernization of the international airport and (ii) the construction of a deepwater port.

Furthermore, local companies are posing to render the local content envisaged by the petroleum industry-based economy. Notwithstanding the Government has been implementing some investor-friendly measures to attract foreign investment, doing business in STP is still expensive, bureaucratic and slow. Thus, the country’s record on attracting significant foreign investment has been poor.

But this is not going to deter us.

[enki]

This looks promising, especially with our U.S. WAR AND OIL MILITARY force involved in the Naval port construction:)
Sadly its only 4-5 billion barrels but as we know every drop counts.
Looks like it could take a loooooonnnnnnnnggggggg time for it to pay off though.:(
But hey I am in!!!:happy64:

[enki]

Where is everybody at??:confused:
Oh its the 17th, we all must be cashing in our dinars for dollars:lmao::lmao:

[craftech]

SAO TOME (Reuters) - Crude oil production could start as early as 2010 in a joint development zone (JDZ) shared between the tiny archipelago of Sao Tome and Principe and oil giant Nigeria, a senior industry official said at the weekend.

Carlos Gomes, executive secretary of the Gulf of Guinea Commission regional grouping, told Reuters U.S. oil major Chevron Corp. could drill a second test well by the third quarter of 2007 after announcing that it had found oil and gas in its first exploration well in an offshore block in the zone.

"If everything goes right -- because we still don't know -- say within the next two years, Chevron declares commerciality, they have another year or so before they start production," Gomes said in an interview in Sao Tome.

"Production in the JDZ could start between four to five years from now if everything goes to plan," said Gomes, who until August chaired a joint development authority set up six years ago to manage the shared offshore zone.

Nigeria has a 60 percent stake in the zone with 40 percent going the twin-island state of Sao Tome and Principe -- one of the latest oil exploration hotspots in Africa's Gulf of Guinea region after a series of big finds in the last decade.

The region, which included Nigeria, Angola and Equatorial Guinea, produces more than 4 million barrels per day and provides nearly 15 percent of U.S. crude supplies, Gomes said.

He said other firms with interests in the joint zone planned to drill in the second half of 2007 but were dependent on rigs being available. He gave no details of the companies concerned.

Further exploration licensing rounds for the remaining blocks 5 and 6 were also expected.

But it was too early to estimate the size of reserves.

"For the time being, it's all speculation. People talk about reserves of 6 billion, 9 billion, 11 billion (barrels). Who is lying? Nobody. Until you drill and do tests you cannot be sure.

"We believe there is great potential but how many barrels per day, we can't say," Gomes said. "This is a hotspot, a very rich area as far as oil is concerned."

[Roninvestor]

Thank You Craftech for keeping us aware on what is going on with ST. I appreciate your input

[Riceboi]

Does anyone know when we can start getting this currency?

[craftech]

Hi Riceboi

Just watch this forum. My next visit to Sao Tome is planned for end Nov / beginning Dec 2006. As soon as I return I will have all the info and structures in place for all who are interested in investing in this particular currency. If you are serious you can send me a private message with your e-mail address and I will place you on my private mail list.

[troon]

Anyone know anything about the Dobra? Someone made mention to it in another thread under speculation. I did a little checking, and it seems that it is a small country off the coast of Africa which has quite a bit of oil that was discovered not to long ago. The U.S. is moving in on this to secure oil from them to help lessen the dependency on the middle east for oil. I think it exchanges roughly a little more than 6,000 SDT to the dollar, and I've read that it is highly likely that it will come into par with the dollar in the future, thoughts?

[Roninvestor]

Troon Do a search for Dobra, your question should be answered.

[troon]

I did do a basic search on the currency, however, I was really looking for a bit more insight from someone that might know a little more than what a google search can provide. I'm hoping that the individual that originally made mention to this currency would chime in here and have something more to add. I wish I could remember who it was and what thread it came from.
:confused:

[Roninvestor]

Look up to the IIF forum search. Type in Sao Tome. Good Luck

[troon]

kewl...thx!

[aqcroce2010]

This sounds VERY interesting to me. Please keep us all updated craftech and others.....

[44special]

CURRENCY FORECAST: the discovery of massive oil reserves will change Sao Tome's future a full 180 degrees although vulnerable to external shocks in the short term until actual oil development and production takes place. Sao Tome's current heavy debt burden and reliance on foreign financial assistance will cease to exist in the years to come. Falling production levels of cocoa will be insignificant in the future of Sao Tome's oil economy. The future for the dobra is very positive with currency appreciation is widely forecasted as Sao Tome will benefit from exporting its oil reserves, balance of payments surpluses in the years to come. The long term forecast is for the dobra to move back to 1000 STD to the USD by year 2010. In order to move to stronger valuations to former trading levels such as in 1993, Sao Tome and Principe has to avoid the problems of political & oil corruption that have taken place in Nigeria, Gabon and Equatorial Guinea. BI.C believes due to Sao Tome's small geographic size and the presence of US military personnel, Sao Tome will avoid these destabilization patterns. However, it will still be a few years before actual oil begins to flow but the STD will begin to be realize stabilization and appreciation due to oil development monies arriving, etc. And even with potentially poor oil deals signed, Sao Tome's tiny economy will be swamped with hard currency cash. Our bullish scenario is for the STD to have the potential to experience one of the world's largest currency appreciations in the history of currency use. A lower risk ranking with a higher score is warranted reflecting the sound future economic fundamentals in the years to come for Sao Tome's national currency, the 'dobra'. Managed float.
UPDATED: January 15, 2003.

Bankintroductions.com - SAO TOME (http://www.bankintroductions.com/saotome.html)

GREAT FIND and kudos DIS. I'd appreciate the PM :happy64:

[44special]

Ok..."smartie"...lets see if you can use some of your abilities and post what is all about then...


The link has nothing to do with the dobra. Point. If it is, then show me. My understanding about Africa, since at least I understand something about geographic.... "Brunhilda"...is that Djibouti is located in the NORTHERN EASTERN of the African region, while Sao Tome and Principe are located in the WESTERN part of the African region...You get it now......two different places...and Djibouti and Sao Tome sounds very different too....


I already check anything that deals with the dobra, I even have the search engine to get the address, email address and phone numbers for the business in Sao Tome, HOWEVER, it is already established that the currency is not traded outside of the islands, so the best we can do is to find a source that can get it. Unless they sell the currency in eBay....I don't know yet, but surely we will find it.

Moderator Note

Responses split to:

http://www.investorsiraq.com/other-investments/13984-middle-east-vs-africa.html

I have never know a time when diligence did not pay off. Especially in the long run. :)

[44special]

Ok I have a bank that will open an account for us. Its a Portugese bank with a branch in Sao Tome and with rights to do business on the island.

I am having them checked out by a government friend as we speak.

They will only do business with a company...NOT individuals.

So anyone who is interested in joining an LLC send me a PM. We will put a group together.

But keep in mind this is most likely an investment of 2 or MORE years.

But all that being said...I think it will be worth it. If the dinar revals in the meantime...it will be all gravy!

PS Anyone here read Portugese???????????????? I can't read the sign up forms!!!! The guy at the bank said he would fill them out for me but I would rather have a 3rd party observer help me. Thanks in Advance.

Did they specifiy an LLC? You can still be a sole proprietor and have several employees. They might want an SCorp, etc. It would be a bit more complex with people all over the World??? Sorry, I'm thinking out loud again :confused:

[44special]

Ok - now I've embarrassed myself! Didn't realize this was 8 pages long and should've sat down and read it all at once. Sorry, won't happen again! Regardless, I'm IN!!!

[Nocturnal]

I contacted several banks about 3 months ago when I first learned of the oil discovery, to see about getting that currency, they told me that they thought we had sanctions on them and couldn't order it if they wanted to. If anyone else has better luck please let me know I am as interested in this currency as I was and still am about the NID. Great post by the way

[TreasureHunter]

Very Interesting! Think I'll Check it out!
Nothing says I have to be Danargamos......Nothin' wrong with havin' more than one money at a time!

[craftech]

Arrived here on Sao Tome 2 Desember 2006. Internet facilities limited and extremely slow. I will be meeting with quite a few officials here during the next 2 weeks. Will do a detail report when I'm back from Sao Tome ± 21 Desember 2006.

[sogrgirl]

call me skeptical!! but i thought i would share this. what do you think???

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am Dr .Richard David, one of the Chief Executive of the Sao-tome
National Petroleum Corporation (SNPC). We represent a high clique in
the down stream petroleum and crude oil production.

There is a huge payment approval running into $25.5Million Dollars for
approval now. And however we are looking for who will stand in for the
Payment; this is necessary because it entails foreign company
participation.

And the payment is in US dollars, the sharing ratio will be 40%for you
And 60%for us. Could you email me back, if you are interested in this
deal so that we can progress on the payment advice? Hope to hear from
you.

Dr.Richard David

PS. thank you craftech!! looking forward to your report! :D

[Jimbojoe]

I saw this last night, but I'm analyzing the source.

http://www.intracen.org/tfs/docs/publications/tieapp6.pdf

ITC - International Trade Centre (http://www.intracen.org/default.htm)

If this is off the cost of Africa watch out for the Nigerian Scams.:no:

[Dinar_OS]

call me skeptical!! but i thought i would share this. what do you think???

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am Dr .Richard David, one of the Chief Executive of the Sao-tome
National Petroleum Corporation (SNPC). We represent a high clique in
the down stream petroleum and crude oil production.

There is a huge payment approval running into $25.5Million Dollars for
approval now. And however we are looking for who will stand in for the
Payment; this is necessary because it entails foreign company
participation.

And the payment is in US dollars, the sharing ratio will be 40%for you
And 60%for us. Could you email me back, if you are interested in this
deal so that we can progress on the payment advice? Hope to hear from
you.

Dr.Richard David

PS. thank you craftech!! looking forward to your report! :D

Sounds a bit like one of those Nigerian email scams doesn't it.
Yes, be skeptical. But play along till they ask you to send a money order to cover their expenses. Post it here and we all will have a good laugh at their expense. :lmao:

[sgmunson]

I get at least 3 or 4 of these every month, and over time, the words change slightly, but the basic request is the same - personal details that absolutely no one should share with ANYONE they don't know personally. FYI...

Steve
(aka sgmunson)
:wave: :wave:
call me skeptical!! but i thought i would share this. what do you think???

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am Dr .Richard David, one of the Chief Executive of the Sao-tome
National Petroleum Corporation (SNPC). We represent a high clique in
the down stream petroleum and crude oil production.

There is a huge payment approval running into $25.5Million Dollars for
approval now. And however we are looking for who will stand in for the
Payment; this is necessary because it entails foreign company
participation.

And the payment is in US dollars, the sharing ratio will be 40%for you
And 60%for us. Could you email me back, if you are interested in this
deal so that we can progress on the payment advice? Hope to hear from
you.

Dr.Richard David

PS. thank you craftech!! looking forward to your report! :D

[tmorr37]

OH BOY
Here we go again and just in time with extra funds from the Iraq RV Thats coming
and I thought I'd be rid of you people :D

[Goober]

After reading these threads, I went to my HSBC and then to BoA, nada. I'm intrigued and need some Dobra too!

[Goober]

If anyone is searching Ebay for this paper, it's in the Africa section on world currencies, Sao tome dobras. There are plenty of notes, but who knows if they're still good. Being an African currency, I would have little faith unless they came from a more reliable source. Way too many political problems up to now, we may have to chase performance by waiting it out some, IMHO. The 3 letter code for this currency is "STD"

[tmorr37]

I bet you will see a reprint here as this country is so poor no one would want to counterfeit their currency.
poor paper quality and no security features
Bank account is the way to go here

[Goober]

If there is such a thing as a safe bank account there, I could be interested. My Dinar and VietNam Dong will see me through if this turns rotten.

[tmorr37]

Oil grab in Africa | Guardian Weekly | Guardian Unlimited (http://www.guardian.co.uk/guardianweekly/story/0,,1333848,00.html)

Meanwhile Chrome/ERHC and Exxon also negotiated preferential rights. By the time the first licences were bid for last November, Sao Tome had effectively given away much of its oil-rich territory, handed a barely existent Nigerian company almost 20% of what was left, and given up most of its rights to down payments. However, November 23, 2003, was still the greatest day in Sao Tome's uneventful history. Twenty companies bid a combined $506m for seven exploration blocks, leading the government to expect more than $200m in signature payments. So far only one contract has been awarded, to ChevronTexaco.

Sao Tomeans are now realising that they will see next to no money for many years. The first boreholes will be drilled next year, but the companies say oil will not flow until 2011. In another controversial deal, the companies negotiated the right to recoup their investments first, receiving 80% of all the oil money for the first five years of production. In other words, Sao Tome stands to make only 20% of a 40% share (8%) between 2011 and 2017.

No one, least of all Fradique de Menezes, the half-Portuguese cocoa trader elected president in 2001, doubts that Sao Tome will one day become rich. Fradique, as he is known everywhere, says that the country will get at least $500m a year from oil, more than 10 times its present annual income. But he too is accused of lining his pockets. On taking power, he was found to have secretly accepted $100,000 from EHRC/Chrome's chairman. Both parties said it was a legitimate election contribution.

Oil grab in Africa | Guardian Weekly | Guardian Unlimited (http://www.guardian.co.uk/guardianweekly/story/0,,1333848,00.html)




.

[Goober]

Time to give-up on this adventure. Concentrate on Dinar, VietNam Dong or Russian Rubles.

[Buckster]

OK, This is just an idea so keep an open mind. If we all here think this is such a good investment, I would be willing to shuck in a few $$ for my share of currency plus if everybody pitched in a few extra $$ it would pay for one of us or A person to physically go there.Maybe open an account there and leave the money there or simply return. THis is just a thought that could be built on perhaps. If this is cannon fodder go easy on me.

[craftech]

Hi Everybody

I've just returned from Sao Tome two hours ago. The trip went very well and I will post a detail report after the x-mas holidays (±27 Dec 2006). Due to family commitments I will not be able to do it right now.

I wish you all a merry x-mas.

[Goober]

Craftech, can't wait to read what you have to say.

[Joe D_inar]

Hi Everybody

I've just returned from Sao Tome two hours ago. The trip went very well and I will post a detail report after the x-mas holidays (±27 Dec 2006). Due to family commitments I will not be able to do it right now.

I wish you all a merry x-mas. Cool, Keep us informed. Thanks and Happy Holidays to all !!!!

[imluvinit]

What happen to ya.

[craftech]

Hi Everybody

First I sincerely want to appologise for the delay. As per my previous post, ST is a wonderful place for the adventurous tourist. As it is with the whole of Africa, it has it's own time; meetings were never on-time, mostly posponed up to 3-days. Eventually I made personal contact with most of the officials I needed to see. However, the Min. of Finance send a delegate to my hotel with some appologies.

To cut a long story short; I applied for the necessary business licence and been told that it will take ±90days (as I know Africa, been borne in Africa and live here all my life, ad another 30 days to be safe).

My bank account at BISTP no. will be opened before the end of Jan. 2007 (say before mid Feb. 2007 to be safe). I have a greedy local laywer in ST to chase the relevant bank official for the account. (Interesting is that you can specify your bank account as US Dollar or Dobra - I obviously opt for the Dobra account).

Now for these people who want hard currency notes: Any individual, citizen of ST or not are not allowed to take large amounts of Dobra past customs. Before you exit ST you have to declare any cash, more than D5000 and you have to exchange it to US$ or Euro. So this route is a no-no. (Another "story" I've heard is that ST will change their currency before 2010, maybe to deter me from trying to take out Dobra in hard cash).

Now I need your input. Once I've received the account no, I will obviously not publicise it on the internet. Those still interested to deposit in this account will have to send me their e-mail addresses. Furthermore the necessary paperwork must be in place. You need proof of your money and I need proof of your deposit. Any ideas for how we can construct some internationally acceptable contract / agreement? Maybe one of you have an example of such a document?

PS. Regarding this Dr. "somebody" that placed some post on this forum; nobody knows of his existence in ST, so be cautious - it looks like a typical certain area of Africa scam.

If you require any further info please do not hesitate to contact me. My next visit to ST is tentatively planned for end March 2007.

[imluvinit]

Hi Everybody

First I sincerely want to appologise for the delay. As per my previous post, ST is a wonderful place for the adventurous tourist. As it is with the whole of Africa, it has it's own time; meetings were never on-time, mostly posponed up to 3-days. Eventually I made personal contact with most of the officials I needed to see. However, the Min. of Finance send a delegate to my hotel with some appologies.

To cut a long story short; I applied for the necessary business licence and been told that it will take ±90days (as I know Africa, been borne in Africa and live here all my life, ad another 30 days to be safe).

My bank account at BISTP no. will be opened before the end of Jan. 2007 (say before mid Feb. 2007 to be safe). I have a greedy local laywer in ST to chase the relevant bank official for the account. (Interesting is that you can specify your bank account as US Dollar or Dobra - I obviously opt for the Dobra account).

Now for these people who want hard currency notes: Any individual, citizen of ST or not are not allowed to take large amounts of Dobra past customs. Before you exit ST you have to declare any cash, more than D5000 and you have to exchange it to US$ or Euro. So this route is a no-no. (Another "story" I've heard is that ST will change their currency before 2010, maybe to deter me from trying to take out Dobra in hard cash).

Now I need your input. Once I've received the account no, I will obviously not publicise it on the internet. Those still interested to deposit in this account will have to send me their e-mail addresses. Furthermore the necessary paperwork must be in place. You need proof of your money and I need proof of your deposit. Any ideas for how we can construct some internationally acceptable contract / agreement? Maybe one of you have an example of such a document?

PS. Regarding this Dr. "somebody" that placed some post on this forum; nobody knows of his existence in ST, so be cautious - it looks like a typical certain area of Africa scam.

If you require any further info please do not hesitate to contact me. My next visit to ST is tentatively planned for end March 2007.




Can we just go there and open an account oueselfs?Or do we have to be a resident.

[craftech]

Can we just go there and open an account oueselfs?Or do we have to be a resident.

Hi imluvinit

Yes anyone can go there an open a bank account. All you need is a valid passport and local ST address.

[Integrity]

Here is the deal...it will not be necessary to form an LLC everyone can open an account on Sao Tome with a minimum of 1K.

However, there are a few legal hoops that you must jump through including having your passport approved by the Sao Tome Embassy in NY and having a person on Sao Tome to act as your agent with the account.

I have found that agent on Sao Tome. The gentleman is an attorney and is willing to set up the accounts.

However, I must go to NY and have my passport and POA stamped by the Embassy.

Once that is finished I will let you know how wiring the money went.


Has anyone tried this yet?? I received an email from Craftech saying that thre have been alot of promises from those here on the forum but nothing has happend. From what I'v read doing a googl sarch Texaco is currently drilling and they ar expecting oil to flow by the end of this year..

Seems like an awesome opportunity, has everyone's research turned up with dead ends:confused:

[craftech]

Too early to give dates for first barrels of oil from Sao Tome and Principe, Chevron says [ 2007-02-12 ]

Sao Tome, Sao Tome and Principe, 12 Feb – The head of US oil company Chevron in Sao Tome and Principe said Friday in Sao Tome it was too early to estimate dates for production of the first barrels of oil from the reserves found of the coast of the archipelago.

“Until we can be certain that the amount of oil is commercially-viable, it is too soon to speculate about a date for the first barrels,” Tim Parsons told newspaper Jornal de Sao Tome e Principe.

For now, according to Parsons, the reserves found in the structure tested in the first exploratory well (Obo-1) and in bloc 1, “are not enough to justify economic development on their own."

Parsons added that his oil company would only comment on the situation after the results of drilling in adjacent concessions arrived and an analysis of whether it was worth carrying out further test drills.

Parsons said, however, he was happy with the approval, in 2004, by the Sao Tome government of the law on Oil Revenue Management, drawn up with the aim of regulating payment, management, use and supervision of any revenue related to oil.

Sao Tome and Principe has already auctioned off six of the nine blocks in its joint exploration area with Nigeria, which will keep 60 percent of revenue from the blocs, while Sao Tome is granted 40 percent.

[LMO]

:lmao: After all the reading on this thread i would like somebody to tell me:

HOW CAN I OPEN A BANK ACCOUNT IN SAO TOME E PRINCIPE?!!! :mad:

IF WOULD BE POSSIBLE TO OPEN AN ACCOUNT THROUGHT INTERNET LIKE WITH WARKA?:rolleye03

HAVE TO BE SOME BANK IN LISBOA, PORTUGAL WITH BRANCH IN SAO TOME THAT OPEN AN ACCOUNT ON-LINE. :no:

[LMO]

Any new information on this matter?:cool:

[coky]

Any new information on this matter?:cool:

WE ARE ALL WAITING FOR CRAFTECH TO POST HIS FINDINGS,
COKY

[Integrity]

Craftech and I have been discussing the idea of opening an escrow account so all parties can be protected. Everything is still on the drawing board. Apparently He's opened an office there with the idea to promote his own products to sell. (go to his web site)

Any and all ideas are welcome. Or PM me

[Goober]

There are current banknotes from Sao Tome and Principe on Ebay right now, 10,000--20,000 and 50,000dobra. Don't know if these are a deal or not, have a look. Ebay username is: "bennyv999" he also sells VND very reasonable.

[craftech]

Hi Goober

When you buy from EBay or any other seller make sure that the notes conform to the following (also refer to attached pictures):

500 Dobra Note: latest issue: 26 August 1993
1000 Dobra Note: latest issue: 26 August 1993
5000 Dobra Note: latest issue: 22 October 1996, Size: 130 X 67mm
10000 Dobra Note: latest issue: 22 October 1996
20000 Dobra Note: latest issue: 22 October 1996
50000 Dobra Note: latest issue: 22 October 1996, Size: 150 X 67mm

Please be carefull there are a lot of older notes on the internet for sale that only bears collectors value.

[mik]

Well sounds like we need to create a pot get a volenteer and send e'm for free plus a lttle somethen somethen/ Sounds crazy but this might be the only way.

[Goober]

The notes on Ebay are series 2004.

[eBayr2007]

I found three auctions by vinnie and posted them

http://www.investorsiraq.com/showthread.php?t=33556

http://www.investorsiraq.com/showthread.php?t=33555

http://www.investorsiraq.com/showthread.php?t=33554

:happy64:

[SystemAdmin]

Hopeful Dinar
Please read the private messages sent to you on posting.
Admin

[Integrity]

Excuse my ignorance in asking the question. Is it possible to buy the Dobra (STP on the forex) and hold long (long meaning 2 years) currently its at 6723.00 to one USD and make the return on investment that way, opposed to just holding hard currency?

[LMO]

Excuse my ignorance in asking the question. Is it possible to buy the Dobra (STP on the forex) and hold long (long meaning 2 years) currently its at 6723.00 to one USD and make the return on investment that way, opposed to just holding hard currency?


Of course you can!:D

[LMO]

OANDA.com:happy64:

[LMO]

I think I'm wrong.
I can't buy dora in the forex. At least in OANDA, not.
:(

Any other xperinces or/and opinions. Pleeeeaaaase?:rolleyes:

Thanks.

[tmorr37]

This currency is to high
It is hyperinflation
A reprint is in order
Very different then Iraq
The new exchange rate may erase the potential profit


Sorry I'm short on words today

[Goober]

You know what? I have Dinar and Dong, I just don't trust this whole Dobra thing.

[robione]

Excuse my ignorance in asking the question. Is it possible to buy the Dobra (STP on the forex) and hold long (long meaning 2 years) currently its at 6723.00 to one USD and make the return on investment that way, opposed to just holding hard currency?

I would think this is something you would not want to do if you are talking about opening an account with a broker. I'm making a few assumptions but here is my reasoning.... carry interest. Unless this is in your favor (IDK what Sao Tome and Principe's interest rate is) you could be losing money out of your account 4/5 weekdays, 3x the amount on Wednesday (to make up for the non-trading weekend).... of course if the rate is in your favor then you'll be gaining $$$ in your account everyday.... this of course possible if you can find a broker to trade STD.

Let's not forget that some brokers are pretty much slimeballs IMHO as FOREX is largely unregulated they have the ability to hunt stoplosses and skim seemingly whatever they want off the top of carry interest turning a carry trade that should be profitable into something that costs you.

I believe FXSolutions carry expenses are so high that on almost any pair you lose out. Some like interbankfx.com are reasonable on most but skim heavily off the NZD/JPY.

Also the account will most likely be leveraged and hence a change in a few pips will equate to dollars made/lost in the account not a fraction of a penny (as brokers leverage "smaller" accounts at 100:1, 200:1, even 400:1). So the potential exists your account could be blown to smithereens before a few years pass if the currency moves against you.

-Robione

[Goober]

I'm telling you all, this Dobra thing will be a bust! For some reason, I just don't trust the politics in this very small two island country. Too much oil potential, and a corrupt government, not to mention all the worlds' interest in the oil. There's no way the small fry will get a crack at it. Buy the paper, use it for wallcovering. IMHO

[NewIraqiDinar]

............................

[geowhiz]

............................

Been watching this one. $$$$$ to be made...

[OILMAN]

pardon my memory loss but during my research
on oil well re-entry wells a couple months back
is to follow the majors to exploratory drilling off
the coast of africia because of easy access for
the rest of the world.........offshore only......:wave:

[aaaack]

Have we reached a dead end here leaving the only option for us to individually go to Sao Tome and open a bank account using a Portugese phrase book? I'm still very interested in investing there and the currency has just dropped a lot making it a good time to invest.

[geowhiz]

Have we reached a dead end here leaving the only option for us to individually go to Sao Tome and open a bank account using a Portugese phrase book? I'm still very interested in investing there and the currency has just dropped a lot making it a good time to invest.


Anywhere in Africa appears to be a bad investment IMO, I dont care how much oil they have. Look at Zimbabwe.

[Jack2576]

Hi, I am new to the forum. I found out great info on the dinar here. Someone ask for pictures of the dobra and I found them you can view them on this site:http://www.monnaiesdumonde.net/en/produits/produits.php?id_produit_gb=62

[jaudude]

"You may find a dealer in the city working for the national bank of Sao
Tome, but will not be able to gain access to their services as they
will
be purely for large multimillion pound transactions."

= for the big shots, little shots like us need not apply. :bandit:

[Integrity]

Awhile back, there was an individual here on the forum that was suppose to be setting up shop over there and wanted a few of us to get involved in purchasing Dobra currency.

Heres the letter I sent PM

Hi Johan

There are many who have written me still expressing a desire to get in on this investment. As always there are risk, that much more doing business over the internet. I myself am very cautious so I do understand why many do not trust others. One idea that I have is a verification of passports and creating an escrow account with non interested party.
I like the verification of passport idea, maybe verification of Social Security card as an alternative. Unfortuanately I don't understand what you mean with "escrow account", kindly explain.

I do believe that there should be compensation to whatever party is doing the “leg” work, such as yourself. Again this is where the mis-trust comes in. I agree and I think a 10% commission to pay for the administration and sundry costs are fair.

It’s unfortunate that we live in such a world, but it is what it is.

It seems to me that you are in a very good position. You do not need any of us where we do need you. I/m not sure where you stand in all this. Why you would be interested in helping anyone from the forum. I've got no problem helping whoever want's to investigate, I am in the position to assist - so why not? As long as it is done legitimate and beneficial for the potential investor as well as for myself. If we all combine our investment funds, surely the account volume will give us some sort of bargaining power for better bank charges and better interest rates. To be honest such an account will place myself in a better position to bargain other personal bank accounts with the same bank.

Could you expound on the international contract you referenced, empty promises? What I meant with "empty promises" is that a lot of people e-mailed me that they will assist with ideas and samples of contracts so that we can compile a contract that are legitamate and acceptable by all parties concerned. To date nobody came forward with any ideas or sample contracts.

From what I’ve researched so far, investing in Dobra will payoff very handsomely all of us could become very wealthy, what would be nice from my perspective (my opinion only) with this new wealth, turn it around and do some real good where it counts, I fully agree, that's one reason why I divided my business in 2 sections on Sao Tome: the one section makes money and the other section puts back into the people by means of free training and education. You can't just take like a colonialist in the previous century and never give back to the country you exploit.

Let me know your ideas Plain and simple: (1) minimum investment amount - e.g $1000, (2) One combined investment account, (3) minimum investment period - e.g 2 years (4) each investor supply me with some verification documentation - certified copy of passport and/or social security card, (5) proof of transfer of amount, (6) signed copy of "contract" (7) I supply investor with: acknowledgement of receipt of transfer in combined account and counter signed copy of "contract".


Best regards,

Steve

Never heard back, From what I gathered you have to personally open an account there. Maybe things have changed, If anyone learns anything new, Please count me in. The US NAVY is building a base there hmmmmmmm wonder why :lmao: