Rallies across U.S. call for illegal immigrant rights

[paganiniraq]

Rallies across U.S. call for illegal immigrant rights
April 11, 2006
(CNN) -- Hundreds of thousands of protesters turned out Monday in small towns and big cities across the United States, demanding that undocumented immigrants get a chance to live the American dream.
http://edition.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/04/10/immigration/index.html

[baz]

Rallies across U.S. call for illegal immigrant rights
April 11, 2006
(CNN) -- Hundreds of thousands of protesters turned out Monday in small towns and big cities across the United States, demanding that undocumented immigrants get a chance to live the American dream.
http://edition.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/04/10/immigration/index.html Yeah we let that happen, and now look at the mess we are in.:(

[JJLL]

True, we put this on ourselves. I love the fact that this country (USA) has to be so politiclally correct that even ILLEGAL immigrants have to have rights in our country :)

What a joke.

[mike55]

The MSM has missed the point AGAIN!! It's not all about stopping immigration. The point is getting immigrants to the country leagally, by lawful process. Illegals have no constitutional rights. Those rights are reserved for American citizens! It's OUR constitution, not Mexico's or Canada's or Venezuela's. They have, at best, humanitarian rights to be treated well as we ship them back to their countries. I would welcome them at the border or the airport if they went through legal channels to get here. I don't want to wake up one morning and find a bunch of people in my backyard at the house doing a bunch of stuff they think i don't want to do and say i owe them the right to stay there. The United States of America IS my backyard, my country. If you want to come here and work. Do it the legal way. And they would be welcome with open arms.
Okay....I've vented...thanks for listening....

[Michelleirs]

That About Sums It All Up!!! Totally Agree With You!!

[panhead]

The MSM has missed the point AGAIN!! It's not all about stopping immigration. The point is getting immigrants to the country leagally, by lawful process. Illegals have no constitutional rights. Those rights are reserved for American citizens! It's OUR constitution, not Mexico's or Canada's or Venezuela's. They have, at best, humanitarian rights to be treated well as we ship them back to their countries. I would welcome them at the border or the airport if they went through legal channels to get here. I don't want to wake up one morning and find a bunch of people in my backyard at the house doing a bunch of stuff they think i don't want to do and say i owe them the right to stay there. The United States of America IS my backyard, my country. If you want to come here and work. Do it the legal way. And they would be welcome with open arms.
Okay....I've vented...thanks for listening....

If they want rights.....tell em to join the military so they can relieve our
service people that have done several tours in Iraq and Afganistan.

[Soliel]

I think it's more about illegal or legal. I think it's the dread we feel that we are letting in foreigners who do not want to become American, who simply want to gain benefits or money here but don't want to be one of us. Also, the separatism aspect is disturbing...wanting special treatment because of one's nationality or ethnicity.

I really wish we and Europe would grow spine and stand up for our country and culture.

[panhead]

I think it's more about illegal or legal. I think it's the dread we feel that we are letting in foreigners who do not want to become American, who simply want to gain benefits or money here but don't want to be one of us. Also, the separatism aspect is disturbing...wanting special treatment because of one's nationality or ethnicity.

I really wish we and Europe would grow spine and stand up for our country and culture.

That was the point....they're ways of gaining citizenship through military service.....unfortunately they don't want to earn anything just want to be given everything for nothing.

[Soliel]

It really makes me angry how OUR president does not stand up against the racism and separatism spouted at these demos YET he was derisive against citizens watching the border. Many people got hurt simply for being on the other side.

www.michellemalkin.com

Truly, our government does not represent us.

[reconaz]

That was the point....they're ways of gaining citizenship through military service.....unfortunately they don't want to earn anything just want to be given everything for nothing.

I agree with you 100%. Anyone that serves deserves to be a citizen.

[paganiniraq]

If they want rights.....tell em to join the military so they can relieve our
service people that have done several tours in Iraq and Afganistan.

Not disagreeing that the boys in the ME need a break but do you really think it's wise to put the security of the country, into the hands of people who have nothing invested in it and wouldn't die to defend it?

[bigshow]

hi mate
you want to try living over here (U.K)we have to bend over backwards for illigal imigrants and all they do in return is burn down houses we give them for free ,refuse to work but still get social money paid to them ,drive better cars than us and complain about everything.We are one of the smallest nations on earth but our goverments answer is, hey let them all in and build houses for them in our lovely countryside which they then turn into a hole like they did in there own counrty,we are runing out of room and patiecne as for letting them in who are they they turn up with no passports no records of who they are ..am i racist well if by racist you mean i dont want counrty to go down the pan then yes i am....watch you country hit rock bottom when they get the vote ...just look at any poor area in the USA or the UK its populated by foreigners

[paganiniraq]

Yeah we let that happen, and now look at the mess we are in.:(

"We" didn't really let that happen.....

[panhead]

Not disagreeing that the boys in the ME need a break but do you really think it's wise to put the security of the country, into the hands of people who have nothing invested in it and wouldn't die to defend it?
Just pointing out the fact that many people gain citizenship through military service.
IMHO I would rather see them do something along those lines than
demand right without doing anything to earn them.

The reason I initially mentoned it in the first place is that over the years I have known several who have done that.....the last was a German national who gained his citizenship last year,he is presently on his fourth tour in Iraq.

[Lonestar]

Lets put the shoe on the other foot for a moment. If I was to go to another country ...Lets say....Mexico. Once there I demanded they give me welfare of some sort.....print all their literature in English as well as Spanish so that My family and I could understand them.....hire bilingual teachers to teach my children....then come out and demand free healthcare would they give me these rights although I will not become a citizen? I think they should become citizens and pay taxes on the wage and contribute myself. I feel a lot of noise is being made without knowledge being obtained prior to them demonstrating.

[paganiniraq]

An article last week stated that there are more than 11 million illegal immigrants and the reality is, that figure is probably double.
They have no respect for the US laws and are not concerned about breaking any of them to gain entry into the country....you can be sure they aren't real concerned with the laws that actually govern the country.
Right now they are demanding the right to live the American dream....yet due to war, poverty, homelessness, poor health, taxed to death, underpaid, etc....there are millions of Americans who can't.

[panhead]

An article last week stated that there are more than 11 million illegal immigrants and the reality is, that figure is probably double.
They have no respect for the US laws and are not concerned about breaking any of them to gain entry into the country....you can be sure they aren't real concerned with the laws that actually govern the country.
Right now they are demanding the right to live the American dream....yet due to war, poverty, homelessness, poor health, taxed to death, underpaid, etc....there are millions of Americans who can't.

I agree....if they want the rights of a US citizen they need to do it legally
and earn that right.
If that proves to be to difficult.....send them back!

[paganiniraq]

I agree....if they want the rights of a US citizen they need to do it legally
and earn that right.
If that proves to be to difficult.....send them back!

Good point......unfortunately, they want the "rights" before doing anything to earn them.

[paganiniraq]

Just pointing out the fact that many people gain citizenship through military service.
IMHO I would rather see them do something along those lines than
demand right without doing anything to earn them.

The reason I initially mentoned it in the first place is that over the years I have known several who have done that.....the last was a German national who gained his citizenship last year,he is presently on his fourth tour in Iraq.

I understand and agree with your point and I agree that steps should be put in place to earn these rights. There has been a lot of people that have done just that, with great success but my concerns lay with the people that broke the law to gain entry, then demand all the perks.

[paganiniraq]

Immigrants Rally in Scores of Cities for Legal Status
President Bush has called on Congress to create a temporary work program that would legalize millions of immigrants.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/11/us/11immig.html?_r=1&th&emc=th&oref=slogin

A process has to be put in place....citizenship should not be granted in "mass groups".
The backgrounds of most of the terrorists from 9/11 were not investigated either.

[delo0073]

We have Laws here. It is not lawful to be in the U.S. Illegally. What is the problem with this? The problem is they are breaking the LAW and should be punished for being here Illegally. I have no problem with any Nationality coming here Legally. I just don't get it!

[insuratei]

Slow down people , we all are immigrants except INDIANS. Maybe loooong time ago, somebody from your family come to America ILLIGAL looking for a better life . Why not this people ? Most of them are hard working people and they do the jobs what americans don"t want to do.Why do we have so many people in walfare? They don"t want to go to pick strawbery in farms.

[Soliel]

Insuratei

I think you need to look deeper.

Yes, we all came from immigrants but when we came there was no social services, no free health care, no free anything. Also, immigrants of the past wanted to be Americans and not a member of the country they came from. Americans considered themselves to be all together, unified...not separate groups wanting special rights.

I disagree with you that Americans do not want to do the jobs. I read and heard two items yesterday that prove otherwise. Number one....column in the LA Times about a 50 year old African American lady who was a security guard. She makes 8.50 a hour and lives in downtown Los Angeles. Her job provides no vacation, no benefits, nothing extra. The reporter followed her to her apartment...it was like a closet and she had to share the bathroom and kitchen with strangers. She was depressed and the reporter felt that she had a bleak existence. She was so embarrassed about her life, she would not allow her grandchildren to come visit her.

Jobs like these used to be done by blacks. They were unionized with fair pay, vacation and health benefits...but when the flood of cheap labor came in, the unions broke, thus ruined one more career path for low skilled workers.

Another story I heard on the radio...and this one is the saddest of all. Contractors rebuilding after Katrina made a call for workers to come down for 10 dollar an hour jobs. Many African Americans who lived there happily went there to work...what happened? The Mexicans beat them out. The contractors said "We do not need you, the Mexicans arrived". They cried. A woman who has a company supplying this labor saw them cry and she cried with them.

Immigration is fine if it helps us and our country...but when it degrades us and hurts other Americans it is not right.

Truly, the ruling class are selling us out for their own personal benefit and they have taken the politicians with them.

[sogrman]

My EXPERIENCE with ILLEGAL immigrants.
ILLEGALS are by definition LAW BREAKERS.
In my experience they do not stop breaking laws at having entered the country.
They continue to break laws in other aspects of society as well.
In the neighborhood where most of them moved to where I used to live the crime rate went up by almost 500%!
I worked in a restaraunt and the kitchen crew was constantly stealing food to take home. They sold social security numbers all the time for $150.00 a pop. less to each other.
Claimed ten dependants and cheated their way out of all the taxes possible and when the irs came after them they'd just show up the next day under a different name and ss#.
Also, of the twelve guys in the kitchen, the fewest active IDs any one guy had was ten all collecting welfare checks from our government. This on top of the one that was being used for work.They were making around ten thousand a month PLUS just for being here ILLEGALY!
The money they made from their jobs they lived on and the $10,000 or better they got from welfare unemployment etc. they sent to mexico.
Deport them you say? When one would get caught by immigration they would only miss a day of work (on average) and then be right back under a different name.
Is this the CONTRIBUTION TO OUR ECONOMY that the dems are screaming we can't do with out!?!?
It is obvious that the dems are trying to buy votes because they have no agenda on which to gain them legally.
When I was a kid I worked my ass off for about a buck an hour at two jobs while going to junior high/high school at the same time. Why? to help out my family and earn something for myself. Maybe, just maybe, our kids should learn a work ethic while they are young like previous generations did. It seems that all the high school kids I meet are just getting hand outs from their parents.
We should let them do a few grunt jobs and learn what it is to do a little hard work. Then they might appreciate the opportunities this country affords, gain a better work ethic and stop bitching that our booming economy is so bad. they might even be forced to come to have some of their own opinions rather than regurgitating the same bs the media/schools force feeds us all the time. experience is the best teacher.

JMHO. I don't know squat.

[Soliel]

Sogrman

Everything you mentioned should not be tolerated...not even for a minute.

I don't like it how the politicians and business people look the other way because they are getting something for it...it's very unfair to other working people and to the American tax payer and everyone who does not break the law.

[mike55]

Immigrants Rally in Scores of Cities for Legal Status
President Bush has called on Congress to create a temporary work program that would legalize millions of immigrants.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/11/us/11immig.html?_r=1&th&emc=th&oref=slogin

A process has to be put in place....citizenship should not be granted in "mass groups".
The backgrounds of most of the terrorists from 9/11 were not investigated either.There IS a process in place! It's called IMMIGRATION. Stay in your country.....do the paperwork......and WAIT YOUR TURN!. Damn ,.....so many don't get it. I'm not in favor of giving my country away! It's about doing leagally and about national security. The world dosen't have the right to pass our borders on whim or just because they don't like their country. A lot come here and then gripe and try to turn "their" area of our country into mini ..."other countries". Do the paperwork, get in line and learn ENGLISH!
thanks again.
P.S. paganiniraq...this is not to you......okay? thanks

[Soliel]

Here is an article that shows how immigration hurts the most vulnerable in our society:

http://www.latimes.com/news/columnists/la-me-lopez9apr09,1,2357223.column?coll=la-news-columns

I get upset with liberals who want to have a PC attitude but refuse to look at the damage their flowerly view of the world does. LIke in this case, relegating the poor to few chances to move up.

[paganiniraq]

Slow down people , we all are immigrants except INDIANS. Maybe loooong time ago, somebody from your family come to America ILLIGAL looking for a better life . Why not this people ? Most of them are hard working people and they do the jobs what americans don"t want to do.Why do we have so many people in walfare? They don"t want to go to pick strawbery in farms.

Most people did come to North America in search of a better life and they worked hard to get it, as did their children and their children's children. It wasn't illegal to make the move, there were no rules and regs.
As time progressed there was a reason it became necessary to established laws, to protect the country and the citizens who adopted it as their own. Call it progress..
There are two types of people at play here:
Those who choose to make this a permanent home, abide by the laws, respect and defend it, then go thru the proper channels to gain citizenship.
Those who disobey laws to gain entry, demand rights, disrespect and then try to change all we stand for, could care less what happens to it, because when the chips are down so to speak, they'll bail and return to their homeland.
When you make a choice to accept a country as home.....you shouldn't have a problem abiding by its rules.

[Texas_dinar]

I am not sure which immigrants that you all speak of but in respect to the Mexican immigrants and knowing a few...They explain that conditions where they are from in mexico are worse then the situations in Iraq and they came to America because they fear for their survival. I think we need to get to the root of the problem as to why they come here and deal with rather then just say bueno bye or they will just come right back.

If i was president..i would keep all the immigrants that we have here and then seal the border tight...after doing this I would go talk to a few people in mexico to see what can be done to make living situations more tolerable...even if we have to bring in troops and offer financial support like we are doing in Iraq. In time, as the violence decreases and the economy increases, I feel we will see less problems and the immigrants here may be more willing to return home.

Don't forget to invest in the mexican pesos....:p

[Soliel]

Texas Dinar

You have sensible solutions...and I agree, the most humane thing to do is pressure Mexico to be truly democratic where the people have a chance to create a life.

Many do not know, Mexico is actually very wealthy with oil...it's just that 20 ruling families control everything.

But don't you see....that those in power, both here and there, do not WANT to change things because they benefit too much. They get to continue to exploit their people down there, recieve remittances from our country, and send their least desirables here for us to pay for their health care and schooling.

And about that fence...even that is not in good faith. Right now there is a fence but there is a hole in it to let everyone in. They know there is a hole and have no intention of repairing it because it serves those at the top who want a constant stream of ignorant, desperate laborers who will take anything to SURVIVE.

We have to realize what we are dealing with... a ruling elite who likes things as they are. Somehow we have got to get our power back for fairness for everyone...ie... a truly democratic Mexico.

Soliel

I am not sure which immigrants that you all speak of but in respect to the Mexican immigrants and knowing a few...They explain that conditions where they are from in mexico are worse then the situations in Iraq and they came to America because they fear for their survival. I think we need to get to the root of the problem as to why they come here and deal with rather then just say bueno bye or they will just come right back.

If i was president..i would keep all the immigrants that we have here and then seal the border tight...after doing this I would go talk to a few people in mexico to see what can be done to make living situations more tolerable...even if we have to bring in troops and offer financial support like we are doing in Iraq. In time, as the violence decreases and the economy increases, I feel we will see less problems and the immigrants here may be more willing to return home.

Don't forget to invest in the mexican pesos....:p

[sogrgirl]

i belong to a weekly poll and since i voted on this i already erased the link, so if there is anyone out there who feels that a link to this is of vital importance i will be happy to get it for you the next time i am sent a poll. i think the numbers speak for themselves (this doesn't appear to be a poll with an agenda like some other polls we know of...)





Protests were going on over the weekend in
support of
illegal immigration. Do you believe that
crossing over the
borders into the US illegally should be a
felony?


N = 12,366 Margin of Error +/- .5%


....... Yes ...... No .... Undecided

Dem ..... 48.2% .... 40.7% ... 11.0%

Ind .... 61.3% .... 29.3% ... 9.3%

Rep ..... 80.9% .... 11.5% ... 7.6%


Overall Percentages

63.3% believe illegal immigration should be a
felony...
27.4% do not believe is should be considered a
felony...
9.3% were undecided...

There is movement on this issue. The MSM have
been rally-
ing to make those who support secure borders
appear as
racists. The biggest movement on this issue has
come from Dems,
who were once solidly anti-illegal immigration in
every way.

[wherbie]

GO HOME..., <EOM>

your mom misses you.....look at the countries them people came from...

and find out what their immigration laws are....we are a nation of LAWS

thats why people want to come here....11 million aint so bad, we could absorb them...the ..REAL PROBLEM ....is the 180 MILLION OTHER PEOPLE ...that will be packing their bags...we cant absorb the world...


you cant let undocumented illegals come here and decide which laws they want to obey...if so


I WANT THE SAME RIGHTS, TO OBEY only THE LAWS I WANT TO, AND SCREW THE REST OF EM....

fair enough?.....????

[Soliel]

Sogrgirl

I know the attitude of the radical ones is unbelievable. They are the real racists with plenty of hostility towards us. It's sickening. Others need to know this. Many do NOT have good intentions for us or our country.

I understand your frustration, totally.

[baz]

"We" didn't really let that happen.....
I think I know what you mean when you say "WE" but sorry for this if you are American, I am from the UK, and yes "WE" let it happen, and this means you as well, in my course of business I probaly speak with about 100 people a week and much of this chat is about the immigrants we have had come into England, about 10 years ago I wrote to our Government expressing my fears over what was going to happen here, you could see it a mile of, only to be told rubbish it wont happen, never ever, total crap, I stand back and say nothing now because all of what I said would happen, has happened, every last bit of it, now the point here is that when I say to these friends "have you wrote to Blair about your concerns" allways the answer is the same "whats the point no one listens and any way its to late now the damage has been done", how can you justify talking to these sort of people who stand and moan, but do nothing, it beats me.
We have immigrants in England moaning about the influx of immigrants coming here, get that! they are scared that the new wave of immigrants will spoil the good life for them.
Talk to any immigrant here, Eastern block or other wise, ask why are you here? "because your country GIVES to me", they answer back, I have ask "where do you think this money comes from that my country gives you"? most dont answer, would you!.
America sounds like it only has the Mexicans to worry about, here "if only" one sort and perhaps we might be able to handle it, now we cant and I mean we CANT,.... if you dont do something now you cannot see the future you are making.
Just to end this long rant, a mosque has been given permission to be built not to far away from me in a area of old houses, we here preserve our old houses....a very small extension to the local childrens play group was refused planning in the same area.
So perhaps this is the power the immigrant can get...do you want this?

I am NOT a racist, I do NOT hate anyone, never have, and never will, ....but I dont try to fill a 5 gallon can with 10 gallons of water.:crying:

[Michelleirs]

What burns me up is that some of the biggest employers in our country have closed their plants here and opened them in Mexico and whatever jobs are left here are being taken by the Mexicans. So if we are sending so many jobs to them, then why are they still coming here to take more of our jobs. I'll tell you why, CHEAP labor! Jobs that use to pay decent money here in the US now pay next to nothing because they have illegal immigrants willing to work for such low pay. I personally think that the government should penalize businesses that hire illegals. If you are not here legally, then you should not get anything. Govt. assistance, health care, food stamps, nothing!! Fill out the paper work, get here legally and then you can reap the benefits of our country. Until then, stay in your own country!!! JMHO

[lordrazor1]

I am not sure which immigrants that you all speak of but in respect to the Mexican immigrants and knowing a few...They explain that conditions where they are from in mexico are worse then the situations in Iraq and they came to America because they fear for their survival. I think we need to get to the root of the problem as to why they come here and deal with rather then just say bueno bye or they will just come right back.

If i was president..i would keep all the immigrants that we have here and then seal the border tight...after doing this I would go talk to a few people in mexico to see what can be done to make living situations more tolerable...even if we have to bring in troops and offer financial support like we are doing in Iraq. In time, as the violence decreases and the economy increases, I feel we will see less problems and the immigrants here may be more willing to return home.

Don't forget to invest in the mexican pesos....:p

Sorry I have to disagree with you. They have a obligation to make their country better, instead of running with their legs between their legs. If we have 11 million plus mexican illegals here, imagine what they could do in their own country and stood up and protest like they did here. No sorry that's a cop out. They need to fix their own problems in their country and if they have the gut to wave their flag in my country, then they should have the guts to go home and make life better for themselves.

[Michelleirs]

These are Theodore Roosevelt's ideas on Immigrants and being AMERICAN in 1907.

"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to disciminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But it is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American. There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, is not an American at all. We have room for but one flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907


Still rings true today!!!

[mike55]

These are Theodore Roosevelt's ideas on Immigrants and being AMERICAN in 1907.

"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to disciminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But it is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American. There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, is not an American at all. We have room for but one flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907


Still rings true today!!!Amen! It's not that Americans won't do the work. A lot of it boils down to the fact that an employer can pay an illegal for instance, $10/hr, however, they (the employer) pays no S.S. taxes, no benefits, no vacations, no unemployment taxes, can fire the illiegal for no reason except that they are done with them,etc. So, an American does not want to try to raise a family with no medical ins, vacations, s.s. etc. It's the hidden costs to employers that cause them to hire illegals. AND the fact that they face no real threat from the gov. for doing so. The illegals, in proxie, become endentured servants. again venting.

[Soliel]

Everybody

Goto www.numbersusa.com You can FAX congress FREE. This is non immigrant bashing but works for sanity in our system

Do it today...

[sogrgirl]

apparently i owe the forum an apology for a couple of posts that i posted yesterday. i was unaware that using ****'s to "mask" those bad words wasn't the way to do it.

I am sorry and i won't let it happen again. i am sorry to have caused the moderators be put in the position of having to delete my posts :(

[panhead]

These are Theodore Roosevelt's ideas on Immigrants and being AMERICAN in 1907.

"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to disciminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But it is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American. There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, is not an American at all. We have room for but one flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."


Theodore Roosevelt 1907


Still rings true today!!!

Wish all Americans thought this way....would have a lot less problems with our country.
Great Post!

[Texas_dinar]

Sorry I have to disagree with you. They have a obligation to make their country better, instead of running with their legs between their legs. If we have 11 million plus mexican illegals here, imagine what they could do in their own country and stood up and protest like they did here. No sorry that's a cop out. They need to fix their own problems in their country and if they have the gut to wave their flag in my country, then they should have the guts to go home and make life better for themselves.

Close your eyes and imagine this...imagine yourself in a environment where you have NO RIGHTS. Imagine hearing bombs and shotguns constantly in the horizon and a very crooked government controlled by the crooks. Imagine everytime you even look at the authority wrong you get beat or even killed. In the background you hear the cries of your little toddler. He has not eaten all day. He is hungry and you have no money for food because there are no jobs...Your only hope is your oldest son begging for money out in the streeets but he has to compete with the other kids and only brings home enough money for crumbs.

Then you hear about how you can find work in america to feed your family. By the time you get approved for a visa...if you do get approved..which may take months..even years...your family would have starved..that is if the corruption does not kill them first.

Now ask yourself...what would you do?

Over here..the immigrants and anyone have the right to protest..In mexico such displays could lead to their guts being laid all over the streets.

And the other lady who talks about all the jobs going to Mexico...not to many jobs are in mexico..most go to India or China.

[Lonestar]

You are in company of many sogrgirl myself included. It is easy to get heated over topics but excercising restraint is best for all I guess.

[Texas_dinar]

and another thing..moving from one country into another brings social changes..I would like to see any of you travel to Mexico or france or egypt and act like you know all the laws...have you ever stopped to think that many immigrants are not aware of many of our laws..even some that may be common sense could be unknown to a community of people who came from an environment where laws are not as strict or is not valid to ours. Being that they speak and write a different language also adds to the challenge. Mexican Americans have no problems abiding by the laws...I am sure if most immigrants was aware of the laws then they would abide by them.

I live in Texas and there are tons of mexicans here and the only law I see them break is the law that forced them over here in the first place to feed their families still in Mexico. I see them in the lines at HEB grocer or ACE check cashing to send western union wire transfers to family members in Mexico. Many of them even return to Mexico once they have worked enough to build a certain status to where they have been moved out of poverty and into a better way of life and can be self sufficient.

[sogrgirl]

You are in company of many sogrgirl myself included. It is easy to get heated over topics but excercising restraint is best for all I guess.

thank you for your support, and you are right.

http://www.newswithviews.com/Devvy/kidd180.htm

http://www.mayorno.com/WhoIsMecha.html

i just want to know why my WHOLE posts were DELETED and not edited. ???

well. i understand the mods position on bad words here, i know what can happen, can't hold that against anyone...

have a great weekend.

[panhead]

thank you for the support, lonestar, but they weren't my words that my entire posts were deleted for. i don't cuss very much. even over something like this. they were quotes from an article and from this site:

http://www.mayorno.com/WhoIsMecha.html

i just want to know why my WHOLE posts were DELETED and not edited. ???

well. i understand the mods position on bad words here, i know what can happen, can't hold that against anyone...

have a great weekend.

Think when the Dinar reval's....might be more than a few curse words
thrown around....LMAO.

[RET]

apparently i owe the forum an apology for a couple of posts that i posted yesterday. i was unaware that using ****'s to "mask" those bad words wasn't the way to do it.

I am sorry and i won't let it happen again. i am sorry to have caused the moderators be put in the position of having to delete my posts

Actually (after reading the record of what happened) your post was rejected by the system NOT DELETED and you were encouraged to repost it.:huge: Hope you did - I haven't checked yet.

From my experience this am, after editing two posts in different sections and sending a pm or commenting in the edit portion of the post, I decided that it was becoming time consuming (yes, RET does work outside the forum;) ) ... because I came across SEVERAL posts by members that had language ... I'm not talking about one word, but several within one post. Usually a post is rejected for language (or any other rule that's not followed).

Anytime you all have a question about your post, give us a ring by way of a pm. We'll be glad to answer any questions you have.

Please note that since the new system was created, we do not moderate like we did last year. If a post "disappears", it usually because it's a duplicate or a forum rule is broken, in which you will receive a message.:wave:

Hope that clears it up. Thank you for what you contribute, sogrgirl.:huge:

[paganiniraq]

I think I know what you mean when you say "WE" but sorry for this if you are American, I am from the UK, and yes "WE" let it happen, and this means you as well, in my course of business I probaly speak with about 100 people a week and much of this chat is about the immigrants we have had come into England, about 10 years ago I wrote to our Government expressing my fears over what was going to happen here, you could see it a mile of, only to be told rubbish it wont happen, never ever, total crap, I stand back and say nothing now because all of what I said would happen, has happened, every last bit of it, now the point here is that when I say to these friends "have you wrote to Blair about your concerns" allways the answer is the same "whats the point no one listens and any way its to late now the damage has been done", how can you justify talking to these sort of people who stand and moan, but do nothing, it beats me.
We have immigrants in England moaning about the influx of immigrants coming here, get that! they are scared that the new wave of immigrants will spoil the good life for them.
Talk to any immigrant here, Eastern block or other wise, ask why are you here? "because your country GIVES to me", they answer back, I have ask "where do you think this money comes from that my country gives you"? most dont answer, would you!.
America sounds like it only has the Mexicans to worry about, here "if only" one sort and perhaps we might be able to handle it, now we cant and I mean we CANT,.... if you dont do something now you cannot see the future you are making.
Just to end this long rant, a mosque has been given permission to be built not to far away from me in a area of old houses, we here preserve our old houses....a very small extension to the local childrens play group was refused planning in the same area.
So perhaps this is the power the immigrant can get...do you want this?

I am NOT a racist, I do NOT hate anyone, never have, and never will, ....but I dont try to fill a 5 gallon can with 10 gallons of water.:crying:

I meant "we" as in the people...most of the problem comes from the polititians allowing rules to be broken and doing nothing about it, except maybe raise the taxes to cover the cost.
Most of the immigrants here, whether legal or illegal, come from all over the world. Some come with the intention of contributing and making a new life, while others come with nothing and want it all.
Unfortunately, it's the taxpayer that bears the worst of the load for the ones who won't work, or who do but don't earn enough to support themselves and their families and require assistance.
Sadly enough, the ones that are willing to work are usually exploited by low-life employers, trying to obtain cheap labor. Whereas most of us wouldn't work for such a low wage which to these people seems like a lot, until of course they try to pay their rent, or feed their families.
The polititians should be concerned about the citizens aka taxpayers, for too many years we've been picking up the slack, paying more and more taxes, while our own families do without.
I am not a racist either and as a rule, I try not to hate. I also totally agree with your "water theory"

[Soliel]

Texas Dinar

I wish all immigrants were as admirable as you portray them...but sadly they are not. They make up a large percentage in our jails, they commit crimes and many are now demanding that we change our laws for their benefit.

Now if it were as you say, I would think they would be grateful, or they should be grateful but sadly, most are not.

Further, did you know that 8 billion is sent home in remittances? That is 8 billion out of our economy that could be spent here. Did you think of how many jobs that 8 billion could support? Do you think sending that much out of the country is good for us at the same time we have to pay taxes for all their health care, schooling and corrective services? In CA alone, it costs 8 billion for all the services rendered towards illegal immigrants.

[Lux]

i just want to know why my WHOLE posts were DELETED and not edited. ???

Actually they aren't deleted. They are sent back to the member in a PM. You can easily cut/paste/edit your original post. Please check your PM box.

We generally try to edit, but the mod who "unposted" your post may have thought it was best for you to re-word.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

:wave:

[apostle]

Several years ago I sold a Medicare Supplement to an employer who does a lot of stucco work in my city, population in the county is around a million. He employs Mexicans almost exclusively. In the course of the sale we became friends and I asked him about it. He told me that on the books they are legal, (but they are not and he knows that) have the papers, etc. The INS comes and checks on them, etc. He pays them top dollar, back then he was paying them upwards of $18 dollars an hour! I asked him why just Mexicans and he told me he couldn't get white guys to do the work. If you know anything at all about this kind of work, buddy it is tough work. I couldn't believe it, but today he is still in business and still carries on business as always.

I work in Iraq now, and the other day I brought up the subject with a legal and Americanized Mexican. He lives in Dallas. I asked him about the ability for the new Mexican-American (which is a bogus term in my opinion) to sponsor family members. He told me that it takes 12 years to get it done. He has been in Dallas legally now for 8 years, and his wife and family are still only allowed visas for a few weeks each year. He is against legalizing the ones here illegally on the grounds that it has taken him this long to get his family here, and now the government wants to give amnesty to this illegal group now here and put his family behind them. I'd be ticked too.

Of course this is a couple of conversations, one some 8 years old and the other last week. If anyone here can corroborate this last conversation with a link to "the process" of becoming a legal citizen I would like to read it.

One other item. I was helping out a brother-in-law some years back on a hotel which was owned by some Polish immigrants, legal ones I presume. It came up one day that once you become a new citizen from another country you are free from paying income taxes for 11 years. I doubt that it is that long, but I am hoping that someone here can tell me that it is completely bogus!! Info please? Anyone?

[sogrman]

this was an e-mail I got from a client

I will try to track down the link so you can see pictures of our tx dollars at work inour public skrewls:crying:


here is the link http://michellemalkin.com/archives/004869.htm



These students are In America ! Not Mexico. If you want to stay here America comes first, last ,and always otherwise go back and make it better where ever you came from but don't try to turn my country into yours by ILLEGALLY entering mine and then demanding all the benefits of a LEGAL citizen of our nation ...

NO funding from federal tax dollars for any student out of class that day or any other day for such subversive activities.......teacher led or not.

Barb

Subject: American flag v. Mexican flag at CA. high school--disgusting public acts



THE AMERICAN FLAG COMES SECOND

By Michelle Malkin · March 29, 2006 01:15 AM



You will not see this heart-stopping photo on the front page of the NY Times or on the lead story of the major news networks.

You should (hat tip: Mika and F/R):



upsidedown.jpg



03/28 : Student protest in Whittier area students from Pioneer, California and Whittier high schools walked out of classes to protest the proposed federal immigration bill March 27, 2006. The protestors put up the Mexican flag over the American flag flying upside down at Montebello High.

(Leo Jarzomb/Staff photo)



More:



upsidedown002.jpg



upsidedown003.jpg



upsidedown004.jpg



Meanwhile: Mexico Cheers Passage of Immigration Bill

Like I said: Welcome to reconquista.



I predict this stunt will be the nail in the coffin of any guest-worker/amnesty plan on the table in Washington. The image of the American flag subsumed to another and turned upside down on American soil is already spreading on Internet forums and via e-mail. Pass this along to every American citizen in your address books and to every representative in the state and federal government. If you choose to remain uninvolved do not be amazed when you no longer have a nation to call your own nor anything you have worked for left since it will be "redistributed" to the activists while you are so peacefully staying out of the "fray". Check history, it is full of nations/empires that disappeared when its citizens no longer held their core beliefs and values. One person CAN make a difference. One plus one plus one plus one plus one plus one.........





The battle for our secure borders and immigration laws that actually mean something, however, hasn't even begun.



***

[sogrman]

Sogrman

Everything you mentioned should not be tolerated...not even for a minute.

I don't like it how the politicians and business people look the other way because they are getting something for it...it's very unfair to other working people and to the American tax payer and everyone who does not break the law.


What I find laughable is the people who owned the restraunt I was contracted to thought they were getting a great bargain fort their money.
A friend who worked there saw them load a thirty gallon trash bag with lobster tails to and take them out to their car when they took the trash out all packed on ice told managment and the manager didn't believe her.
I ahve hired lots of people but I always check up on things and don't keep people I have to watch in order to keep them working.
there is a mind set put there that I don't understand.


PS. I have had good employees from south of the border they were however LEGALY here to work and worked hard and I gave them bonuses.

[sogrman]

I wont make comments as she is a far better poster than I
I will just provide the links and anyone who is interested can go check it out they are "good" articles IMHO be your own judge and make your own conclutions

http://www.newswithviews.com/Devvy/kidd180.htm

http://www.mayorno.com/WhoIsMecha.html

[lordrazor1]

Texas-D:

I was in the military for 20 plus years and I've traveled to other countries, and it was my responsibility to ask and find out about the laws in those countries, and my responsibility to learn there language. Not to go over there and force them to change their laws to fit my needs. It was their country so I had no rights to do so! So please cry me a river. Poor Mexicans, like I said 11 million can protest in their country and I doubt the Mexican gov could or would spill the guts of 11 million. I'm not goint to argue with you about it because you feel like the Mexicans are too stupid to fix their own country, but smart enough to run over here and fix ours. Sorry don't think so! If you feel that strongly about it, then go to Mexico and help them fix their country, and not force their Illegal rights on us....because they are Illegal and have no rights!

[Copedawg]

Dear President Bush:

I'm about to plan a little trip with my family and extended family, and I would like to ask you to assist me. I'm going to walk across the border from the U.S. into Mexico, and I need to make a few arrangements. I know you can help with this.

I plan to skip all the legal stuff like visas, passports, immigration quotas and laws. I'm sure they handle those things the same way you do here. So, would you mind telling your buddy, President Vicente Fox, that I'm on my way over? Please let him know that I will be expecting the following:

1. Free medical care for my entire family.

2. English-speaking government bureaucrats for all services I might need, whether I use them or not.

3. All government forms need to be printed in English.

4. I want my kids to be taught by English-speaking teachers.

5. Schools need to include classes on American culture and history.

6. I want my kids to see the American flag flying on the top of the flag pole at their school with the Mexican flag flying lower down.

7. Please plan to feed my kids at school for both breakfast and lunch.

8. I will need a local Mexican driver's license so I can get easy access to government services.

9. I do not plan to have any car insurance and I won't make any effort to learn local traffic laws.

10. In case one of the Mexican police officers does not get the memo from Pres. Fox to leave me alone, please be sure that all police officers speak English.

11. I plan to fly the U.S. flag from my house top, put flag decals on my car, and have a gigantic celebration on July 4th. I do not want any complaints or negative comments from the locals.

12. I would also like to have a nice job without paying any taxes, and don't enforce any labor laws or tax laws.

13. Please tell all the people in the country to be extremely nice and never say a critical word about me, or about the strain I might place on the economy.

I know this is an easy request because you already do all these things for all the people who come to the U.S. from Mexico. I am sure that Pres. Fox won't mind returning the favor if you ask him nicely. However, if he gives you any trouble, just invite him to go quail hunting with your V.P.

Thank you so much for your kind help.

[Texas_dinar]

I understand and ampathize with all your views but I still stand by my own. I am not saying that it is right what is being done and not all the immigrants are good people but most are. If things was reversed and I found myself running to Mexico looking for an opportunity to raise my family out of unfortunate situations in the USA then I would do it. I think of the Immigrants more as refugees rather then Illegal Immigrants. Anyways guys/gals...I spoke my opinion and see no reason for me to reply any further....

[dannykimji]

They should of surrounded them and i bet they could have got 90% back out of the country.Then let them protest in their own country! I obey the law of this land and protect those in are land.From those that DON'T OBEY ARE LAW AND SOME OF YOU THINK THAT'S O.K. MUST BE USING THE LEFT SIDE OF YOUR BRAIN ONLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[millertyme]

MR. PRESIDENT, I'M HEADED TO MEXICO

David M. Bresnahan
April 1, 2006
NewsWithViews.com
Dear President Bush:
I'm about to plan a little trip with my family and extended family, and I would like to ask you to assist me. I'm going to walk across the border from the U.S. into Mexico, and I need to make a few arrangements. I know you can help with this.
I plan to skip all the legal stuff like visas, passports, immigration quotas and laws. I'm sure they handle those things the same way you do here.
So, would you mind telling your buddy, President Vicente Fox, that I'm on my way over? Please let him know that I will be expecting the following:
1. Free medical care for my entire family.
2. English-speaking government bureaucrats for all services I might need, whether I use them or not.
3. All government forms need to be printed in English.
4. I want my kids to be taught by English-speaking teachers.
5. Schools need to include classes on American culture and history.
6. I want my kids to see the American flag flying on the top of the flag pole at their school with the Mexican flag flying lower down.
7. Please plan to feed my kids at school for both breakfast and lunch.
8. I will need a local Mexican driver's license so I can get easy access to government services.
9. I do not plan to have any car insurance, and I won't make any effort to learn local traffic laws.
10. In case one of the Mexican police officers does not get the memo from Pres. Fox to leave me alone, please be sure that all police officers speak English.
11. I plan to fly the U.S. flag from my house top, put flag decals on my car, and have a gigantic celebration on July 4th. I do not want any complaints or negative comments from the locals.
12. I would also like to have a nice job without paying any taxes, and don't enforce any labor laws or tax laws.
13. Please tell all the people in the country to be extremely nice and never say a critical word about me, or about the strain I might place on the economy.
I know this is an easy request because you already do all these things for all the people who come to the U.S. from Mexico. I am sure that Pres. Fox won't mind returning the favor if you ask him nicely.
However, if he gives you any trouble, just invite him to go quail hunting with your V.P.
Thank you so much for your kind help.
Sincerely,
:lmao: :happy64:

[Soliel]

Texas Dinar

The question is not really if there are good ones, there are. One of my best friends is a Mexican National...I love him a lot.

The question is...is it good for our country?

We can't make big macro decisions in life based on the personal. Your thought is totally ignoring the economic and cultural impact. It is also ignoring the suffering we are inflicting on those at the lowest rung of the economic ladder. Those are very nice people, too you know.

Reason has to prevail here...and to look at everything....not just "are they nice"? That is not the question.

Oh, to answer that question many are nice but many are not...so that's even a mixed bag.

[tmorr37]

Slow down people , we all are immigrants except INDIANS. Maybe loooong time ago, somebody from your family come to America ILLEGAL looking for a better life . Why not this people ? Most of them are hard working people and they do the jobs what Americans don"t want to do.Why do we have so many people in welfare? They don"t want to go to pick strawberry in farms.

These Illegals cost the American tax payers 65 Billion dollars a year.
They do the jobs we won't because they take US dollars back to Mexico where it has a much greater value. If they become legal they won't do these jobs anymore. Suddenly there will be no one to pick the strawberries. The flood gates will be open and millions more will come across the border claiming they have been here.
12 million Illegals maybe as many as 30 million are here now. The Democrats see all these welfare voters for them. Foreigners influencing and changing our political direction of this country who do not understand America and capitalism. We are becoming France. What are the Republicans thinking.
We need to find a more Conservative leaders in this country.

[Soliel]

It's all about cheap labor...sadly enough. And actually, it doesn't help immigrants themselves. You see, the more young and desperate, the better...even better if you dont speak the language. They use you up and throw you away by the time you are 40 - with no real chance at retirement or a life. Meanwhile, trades that were once decent paying are not anymore because of the huge influx of labor that we seem to constantly need. WE don't, of course, there are 20 million illiterates in this country who need decent paying unskilled labor...but they do not want them because they would be standing up for certain rights.

Read this. It was put up by a man of Mexican heritage who is effected in a negative way:

http://unitedstates.fm/ray.htm

I told the story of the rebuilding after Katrina? Contractors in the
South were telling labor employement agencies that they need workers now. One lady sent over lots of African Americans do work...which they were willing do to do since many had lived there. When they got there, the contractors said "The Mexicans have arrived, we do not need you anymore". The men were sent away, CRYING. I would cry, too. What a betrayal to your own countrymen. These men are "nice", too, but by being complacent we are totally screwing the workers. I find it interesting how so many who are for huge immigration think NOTHING of what it is doing to the African American community. They are the most vulnerable and most liberals cannot throw them a care.

So, really, it is NOT kind or compassionate to allow this to continue. You are hurting many and giving the ruling families of Mexico an excuse to continue their unfair ways. If you are truly compassionate about this you see all angles...and want true reform that doesn't hurt huge large segments of the population. I want the US to pressure Mexico into being more democratic and not stealing all the wealth of the country. Mexico is actually quite wealthy with all it's oil wealth.

I have talked in length about this issue with my friend, and he agrees with me totally.

I have found those who are most non chalant about this issue are not workers and are sheltered from the effects of it all.

[mike sl600 canada]

great posts copedawg and sogrman i totally agree, i cant believe what mexican illegals get away with once in your country, its laughable,also did you ever hear of the mexicans in california now say they want to take back the southwest,claiming california is theirs as well as the entire southwest,i seen it on tvthey said they,re gonna keep coming over the border for years and years,this is their hidden agenda,10 million turns into 30 million pretty fast they cant claim nothing, america belongs to americans period,build a big 6 layer fence,patrolled by army reserves,zero tolerance,not to mention the arabs and muslums they have caught in the last few years,YESfor the first time ever they have caught iraqis,iranians,egyptians,saudies,afghanies,jordan illegals,I WONDER WHAT THEY WANT IN AMERICA ,GEEZ I WONDER this was at the mexican border,not to mention the drugs thats poisoning society,you gotta shut down both borders, they just walk across it in canada in the most remote parts of saskatchewan or manitoba or wherever. YOUR ONLY AS STRONG AS YOUR WEAKEST LINK whats it gonna take,another terrorist attack, unfortunately these scum are probably gonna lay low for years in america planning god knows what,they know how weak your borders are,by the way the numbers of middle easterns they caught was huge,i dont know the numbers exactly,just imagine how many get through probably60 percent,PROTECT YOURSELVES AMERICA the world cant believe how pourous your borders are and you have the means to quite easily protect it.

[sogrgirl]

here's a link that will forward messages to your congressmen/women for free.

http://www.numbersusa.com/index

lots of info on their website.

also, we went on a mini-vacation over easter weekend and took some beautiful shots. i wish i would have been brave enough to take some portraits of the people we ran across but i was unsure if my attempts would be misconstrued... we went to a park and noticed that only one out of ten groups of people there were light-skinned. the remaining were all of hispanic descent. illegal or not, i have no idea, nor was i going to judge, it was just an observation. this is not on any USA border, this was lake tahoe.

here's a few pretty shots that lets us know what's real.

[sogrgirl]

I want to make it very, very clear that i am in NO way, shape or form, racist...i don't give a hoot if you are purple, if you are here ILLEGALLY, that is my problem...

i did run across an interesting article last night while searching for verification in regards to the kidnapping of employees at an investment company..

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/04/17/news/gangs.php

A crime wave from U.S. deportees
By Indira A.R. Lakshmanan The Boston Globe

MONDAY, APRIL 17, 2006

SAN SALVADOR Ten years after a change in U.S. immigration law paved the way for mass deportations, Central American countries say they cannot cope with the criminal mayhem being inflicted by tens of thousands of gang members who have been sent back to their native lands.

[Gluphus]

I think we all are reaping what we allowed to be planted.

Our great generations knew the cold facts of life and struggled to provide a standard of life for their families as best they could (and yes, it was at the expense of others...welcome to nature). As generations go by, they detatch themselves from the harsh reality and think "feel good" progressive items (which actually feed into a higher agenda) will make the world a better place.

Sad thing is the people that allowed this will be honestly surprised when they find out the rattlesnake they thought would make a good house pet bites them.

IMHO, the next 20-25 years will be a great buying opportunity. Sad part, it will be on the backs of those "thrown from grace here in the US". The reality part is they made the choice to be there.

[Lonestar]

In my opinion and from what Ihave seen here in Texas on television with the demonstrations locally it disgusts me. I have seen kids in and around Austin middle school age and highschool age marching in protest many times. My guess is most of them are here legally. If it ws my school I would have the truant officer take names for skipping and impose penalties. My daughter almost did not get into her foreign language (Spanish) because of the number of hispanics enrolled in the class. What sense does that make? I have seen problems in our school district and most have been from hispanics. I work two jobs in the summer (one construction) and when I need help on a project or a jobsite to be cleaned up I have an abundent supply of high school age kids and some slightly older to select from who are more than ready to earn a dollar. That solves some of the problem for the summer but while they are in school where does one go for manual labor? I have used day labor from the local force and try to keep my money going to support our economy. If others tried alternatives like this instead of going to cheap illegal labor maybe we would not be in the situation we are in now.

[Panther]

Any Michael Savage listeners out there?

Today he discussed the dramatic increase in horrible diseases that we once thought were wiped out, but are now returning to the USA because of illegal immigration.

Nevertheless, in our PC world we cannot even take small steps to prevent the reintroduction and spread of these diseases.

Raising a family just got a lot more worrisome. Now I have to be concerned that my kids aren’t infected by some nasty disease from the illegal alien community.

[AZDinar]

According to one study done on the effects of the current 'amnesty' bill that is making it's way through the House with the support of the politcal whore McCain, the total effect on the number of immigrants that will be in the U.S. LEGALLY in the next ten years should it pass would be in excess of 70 MILLION!! This accounts for those in the U.S. illegally now, those that will swarm our borders to take advantage of their benefits under the new law, and the families (mother, father, grandparents, aunts, uncles, brothers, sisters) that would legally be allowed to enter our country to join those that are already here.

This is much, much bigger than the MSM, or those politico's that don't want to be held accountable, is leading you to believe. Think about it. 70 MILLION foreigners flooding our country in the next 10 years... Say goodbye to the country you grew up in...

[Lonestar]

Two words I can think of tho describe that are It sucks! It those stats or even half come to fruition we are in deep doodoo.

[tattatu]

is more likely a currency issue. Raising the minimum wage and strengthening the dollar relative to other countries is an incentive for more immigrants.

An unskilled laborer earns more in the US than in Mexico. If you devalued the dollar (let it float) there would be less economic incentive to immigrate. Most savings earned in the US is repatriated back to the country of origin, where dollars get exchanged for some other currency -- the banks of these countries make a fabulous spread.

The purchasing power of the dollar is artificially higher than it should be. Countries with large numbers of expatriates with low wages indirectly benefit from countries that provide higher wages for jobs that require the same skill level.

Its interesting that families that remain in Mexico, but have a wage earner living in the US, tend to do better overall than families that attempt to immigrate to the US as a single unit. Its well-known that families have a harder time assimilating into mainstream culture and its easy to forget that immigrants dont leave their country willingly, they do so from fear.

I'm interested in how currency's relative strength affects the country's level of education. Does an overvalued currency lead to lower reading scores?

[sogrman]

I am not on here for long so if someone already posted this and I missed it forgive me


http://www.gopusa.com/theloft/?p=270


The Department of Homeland Security announced Thursday that it would be implementing a new, revolutionary, cutting-edge, state-of-the-art approach to the illegal immigration problem. What is this “new” approach? Believe it or not, the department declared that the U.S. would now be cracking down on employers who “knowingly and recklessly” hire illegal aliens. In other words, they are going to try a “new” program called “enforcing existing laws.” Guess what? It works!

[tattatu]

Walsmart creates 200,000 jobs per year or 10% of all the jobs created in the US. Since 1970, US population has grown 100 million, while jobs created every year remains the same -- about 2 million per year. The number of unskilled jobs is increasing and workers today earn lower wages than 4 years ago.

If the government was serious about stopping immigration, a currency devaluation would be more effective than a hike in interest rates. But devaluations hurt rich people -- the fear of a devaluation is moving capital overseas, eventually our government wont have any choice, but by then the damage will have been done and presto we will have a serious inflation problem and no one will be worried about illegals.

Interest rates going up just increases the trade deficit and puts more people out of work -- a responsible government wouldn't wait for inflation to get out of control before devaluing its currency. FDR waited too long. Nixon didnt go far enough -- he had to devalue twice. Maybe we should bring back trade dollars -- paying lowskilled workers and illegals in trade dollars would lower the deficit and keep the real dollar propped up longer...I'd call it the Walsmart Mint.

[usakidd]

Another big protest is scheduled for May 1, 2006
A National Boycott 2006 and protest marches to demand amnesty for illegals is scheduled for May 1st. The Great May 1st Boycott. These illegals will declare a day of : NO WORK, NO SCHOOL, NO BUYING OR SELLING, to protest for full rights for illegal immegrants. In California, The Democrat Senators actually are endorsing this. We need to send our politicians a clear signal. Who’s side are they on?
As Rush Limbaugh put it "Illegals & Democrats in your face again……..Monday MayDay, the great communist holiday, and the illegal alien movement says it’s going to stick it to you in force" see his article at:http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_042806/content/may_day_boycott.guest.html

When these illegals are out in the open doing this in your face thing, It would be a greattime to round them up and deport them, or, ?/x#%#*&X?!

[Panther]

I didn't have any trouble getting frech fries and a burger for lunch. I think the media has over blown the participation in these events.

Also, the media won't make the distinction between legal and illegal immigration...

[wherbie]

Leave it to the liberal press to be politically correct...what we have is an invasion of illegal aliens.....not immigrants,,,immigrants are people who go thru the process, and become citizens....as someone earlier said illegal aliens dont have rights...citizens do...so this B.S...about we're here we are Americans is just that..B.S.

Most any other nation in the world dosent have this problem...why?..cause in half of them...you would end up in jail....the other half.....you probally would be shot to death

do you have any idea at @ adverage of $6500 apiece to have a baby over the last 25 years...how much it has cost us to let the Mexicans slip across the border?....100's of Millions...and schooling for 12 years, and welfare and food staps....BILLIONS...for a group of poorly paid people...who are usually paid cash....and pay very little...taxesw...if any...

Folks....we cant do it any more....

not to mention drug smuggling and what we spend incarseration and prosicutuion...Illegals


BILLIONS......we aint got it anymore

[kcebdivad]

:mad: if they want to be americans so bad, maybe they can send their kids oversees and fight for this country... then they will actually have something invested in this country. I was over there for a year (iraq) maybe they can do it....the army uped the enlistment age, they need people to go over....Im just so upset over this i dont know what to do and when their kids get back from fighting, they will have a gi bill just like i have...and thats all was ever eligible for.....my family made SO much money as farmers i couldnt get scholarships....
just my thoughts, and im not sorry for them

[sogrgirl]

i agree wholeheartedly with what has been said on the previous four posts!!

It really gets me that the media keeps saying "immigrants" when it isn't "immigrants" that we are talking about here, it's ILLEGAL aliens. but, if the people hear something enough they will begin to think exactly the way that they are being led to think...that we are talking about immigrants here, and the masses will begin to leave the word illegal out of the thought process altogether... that will make it all okay, then... sure.

http://www.house.gov/garymiller/OutrageArchiveDectoJuly2004.html

September 17- The U.S.'s borders, rather than become more secure since September 11, 200, have grown even more porous and the trend has accelerated in the past year. Based on a Time investigation, more than three million illegal aliens will flood into the United States this year and, based on government statistics, as many as 190,000 will hold citizenship in hostile countries such as Afghanistan, Bulgaria, Russia, China, Egypt, Iran and Iraq. This is unacceptable to Congressman Miller, but his colleagues in Congress don't seem to mind. This week, the House passed an amendment allowing U.S. banks to accept, as proof of identity, easily forged ID cards issued by the Mexican government to illegal immigrants. This is a first step on a very slippery slope of granting legal status to millions of illegal immigrants living in the United States . And not only do these illegal immigrants place a strain on our social services, but they can also pose a threat to our national security. According to the FBI, many individuals, including some from the Middle East , have been arrested with multiple counterfeit IDs issued by the Mexican government. Do we have to wait for another terrorist attack before Congress takes border security seriously?

July 2- Mexico's new border relations czar announced this week that he wants the United States to eliminate its southern border. Arturo Gonzalez Cruz, a recent government appointee of President Vicente Fox, says he wants to begin building more highway lanes to the United States and increase the number of border crossings with the ultimate goal of eliminating the Mexican-United States border. About three million illegal immigrants cross the border from Mexico into the United States each year, costing U.S. taxpayers billions of dollars for social services.

and this is a fun read:
http://www.independentconservative.com/2006/05/01/gtb_on_dwl/#more-615

...Amboy Times has some helpful advice for the title of these strikes/boycotts/stick-it-in your-eye rallies: “I recommend a less confrontational title, perhaps ‘Bite The Hand That Feeds You Day’ or how about boycotting all the free medical care, schools, and other government services? They could call it ‘No Payroll Taxation Means No Government benefits Day’ - hmm…a bit wordy, that one…”

Whatever the name, illegal aliens (presumably of Latino descent only, since this is all about THEM, nevermind the hundreds of thousands of illegals from Ireland, Dominican Republic, Jamaica, etc.) intend to show us that THEY are the engine that drives the American economy. They hope to wreak havoc on our economy to prove that we can never live a day without them because “THEY are America.” ...



if this subject doesn't interest you yet, it will...

[sogrgirl]

in arizona:

http://www.alpinesurvival.com/russell-pearce_illegal-mexican-immigration.html

"Illegal immigration, moreover, is not an exceptional case, but a powerful proof that the usually accepted 'model' of how our government works has been supplanted by something else entirely," Youngblood said. " Most Americans, as supported by both the anecdotal evidence of popular opinion outlets such as talk radio, the Internet, etc., and by legitimate, scientific polling data, overwhelmingly support stopping illegal migration. Yet, when you talk to almost any elected official of either party at any level of government, there is a total disconnect between what they say and do, and what their constituents want them to do. Their polite response, of course, is that immigration, illegal or otherwise, is good for the country."


"The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican form of Government, and shall protect each of them against invasion." Article IV Section 4 of the U.S. Constitution.

Perhaps as high as 80% of the violent crime in Phoenix area involves illegal aliens (according to Chief Hurt and Mesa police violent crimes response team)

in california:

a great site, VERY informative and eye-opening:

http://www.usborderpatrol.com/borderframe1301.htm

...The people of Colonia Libertad are so violent that they attack every sign of authority. Even Tijuana police cars entering the colonia are stopped, rolled over and set on fire. Tijuana police -- wearing double-thick Kevlar vests and military style helmets -- now travel the area on dirt bikes -- vehicles maneuverable enough to escape most ambushes and attacks.

The people of Mexico have been told how the Norte Americanos have stolen their country's land and wealth. For all the years of their schooling their teachers repeat the stories of how Mexico has the right to reclaim its land. They have been told of how their brothers and sisters were winning the battle and that they soon would take back California, Arizona and New Mexico.

And that it was all being done one small step at a time. And the truth is….. they really are doing it.

First there is US citizenship for any Mexican child born in any American hospital of an illegal alien mother (and in Los Angeles County 66% of all births are to illegal alien mothers). The average Mexican woman averaged 6.8 children in 1970 and although this number is believed to have dropped since then it remains a bio-bomb of cataclysmic proportions. Honduran females today average 5.2 children, Guatemalans 5.1 children.

Demographers describe the average of 2.1 children per woman as the ideal "replacement level" - the point where births equal deaths. The birth rate for White females in the United States is about 1.3.

America's hospitals are incubators for the seeds of America's demise -- funded by the US taxpayer. Then there is free housing and free food. And then free medical care beyond anyone's wildest dreams. Million dollar heart transplants are free in America -- and yes, foreigners from Mexico are given priority over Americans. This sometimes means the death of Americans who have to wait as foreigners are put at the front of the line. Impossible? Incredible? It happens almost every day. There have been well publicized hearings on the matter but nothing is done.

The children born to illegal alien mothers are immediately eligible for Aid To Families With Dependent Children - AFDC. Illegal alien mothers can and do receive even $2,000 a month in benefits - it depends upon how many US citizen children she has spawned.

San Diego has tried to force these illegal alien mothers to perform some kind of work to get this money. The illegal's present Modus Operandi is to have the checks mailed to a US Post Office box at the border and have someone collect the checks for them. In Mexico she can live like a queen on $2,000 a month. How well could you live on $2,000 a month…. in Mexico?

The City of San Diego government has discovered that trying to make these illegals work for their $2,000 a month is a federal crime! It is a federal crime to hire an illegal alien - so making these illegal aliens work for their welfare money is thus - illegal.

In most parts of California you can register to vote even if you can't speak English. And even if you can's speak English, it is illegal for the clerk to ask for proof of citizenship....

and there's more...

you can't have super-powers in the New World Order

[sogrgirl]

...Mexico's presidential elections were marred on March 23, 1994 by the Tijuana assassination of Mexico's contending presidential candidate Sr. Luis Denaldo Colosio. The assassin finally convicted of the crime was Mario Alburto Martinez. It was subsequently discovered that Mr. Martinez -- Mexican National -- was fully registered to vote in Los Angeles, California, USA, in all of the local, state and US elections just as if he was a US citizen.

The American media call even people like Mr. Martinez "undocumented workers", or "undocumented immigrants". The term "Illegal Alien" is considered so racist that it cannot be used even by the police. Yet Mr. Martinez and all those of his kind have a name for themselves - "Los ilegales" - The Illegal Men.

The final destination for many of these illegal aliens is the huge Mexican colonia in south central Los Angeles -- which has become the second largest "Mexican" city in the world -- second only to Mexico City itself. And this populous new Mexican city is in California -- in the United States of America. The Mexican colonia in Los Angeles is a very violent place.

There is at least one murder in this colonia every night. It is so violent that even weddings are dangerous and about once a year a wedding in the colonia is marred by a drunken fight that ends in gunfire and murder.

If we review the transcripts from one of the largest crime trials in Los Angeles history - in the court of US District Judge Ronald Lew - we discover how violent and pervasive the Mexican is in our prison system. Thirteen Mexicans were tried on charges of killing or trying to kill 22 people. Much of the Mexican gang population in the US operates under the name "La Eme" - which is the Mexican phonetic pronunciation of "M" for mafia....

The magnitude of the Mexican crime plague in Los Angeles is a well guarded secret.

More than 87 percent of people of Mexican decent now residing in the United States are not US citizens -- holding instead resident alien status or illegal alien status. In addition, the largest immigrant group of all the immigrant groups in the United States are Mexicans under the age of four.

It may be of interest to note that while Washington D.C is certainly not a nice place to live, Mexico City is the only city in the world where dried particles of human feces float in the air like brown snow.

eminent domain, amnesty for illegal aliens, rights for illegal aliens... when does it END???? there is no room for super-powers in the New World Order

[paganiniraq]

Thousands march for immigrant rights
http://edition.cnn.com/2006/US/05/01/immigrant.day/index.html
Immigrants Take to U.S. Streets in Show of Strength
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/02/us/02immig.html?_r=1&th&emc=th&oref=slogin


This quote proves immigration laws should be tightened up and enforced.
"I think we're just too many that you can't just send them back. How are you going to ignore these people?" said Aimee Hernandez.

[Texas_dinar]

well, i hope you all get exactly what you deserve...all this talk about inflation..imagine what inflation would soar to after we send back the illegal immigrants...if we do find anyone who will work the jobs most of them perform..they will want more money...this in turn will cause dominoe affect and then think of who built your houses and highways...what we all take for granted will come back and slap you all in the face.

By the way....the Canadians feel the same about the Americans running to Canada as the Americans feel about the immigrants comming into America.

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

[Soliel]

Yes, but Texas Dinar...this "cheap" labor is nto really cheap. We ARE paying for it by subsiding the health care, housing, sometimes welfare, education, incarceration. We are paying for a lot of the stuff the employer should be paying...such as enough to live, health care...so we don't have to.

Also, what is going to happen to all these unfortunate slave class aliens when they age and have NOTHING? What is going to happen to them as they age....again the taxpayer will have to take care of it....because the employers did not pay a decent wage.

Also, many of the jobs they do are in the construction trades...jobs that plenty of natives have done. Have you not read my story on how blacks wanted to clean up the gulf but were turned away because the contractors chose cheap illegal alien labor? Or about how all the security jobs in LA used to be 10.00 or above and unionized with basic benefits...how that has been destroyed because of the influx. Remember the story of the older black lady who is barely living because of this? How can you say this is remotely fair or right? We are talking roofing, construction, paving...many jobs that were once decent paying...that many in some classes in our society relied upon. We are really, really screwing them by turning a blind eye. They are paying the heaviest price by far. It's so easy when you in a profession that is not threatened to simply say "they are nice" and not look deeper into the issue.

It is definitely NOT cheap. There is a price to pay always. And those on the lowest economic rungs of the ladder ARE paying it.

[Soliel]

Inflation will probably happen with our without aliens....as it's mainly due to huge trade deficit and huge budget -government not being able to give out goodies-.

[paganiniraq]

well, i hope you all get exactly what you deserve...all this talk about inflation..imagine what inflation would soar to after we send back the illegal immigrants...if we do find anyone who will work the jobs most of them perform..they will want more money...this in turn will cause dominoe affect and then think of who built your houses and highways...what we all take for granted will come back and slap you all in the face.

By the way....the Canadians feel the same about the Americans running to Canada as the Americans feel about the immigrants comming into America.

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

A lot of hard working American workers are willing to work for less but are out of work because illegal immigrants come in and do it for cheap.
No taxes are paid out of these wages because they aren't legal employees so the only people that suffer financially, are the American taxpayers....the income from taxes have to come from somewhere.
When these people are too old to work, they'll want to collect the old age pension or welfare, get medical treatment and presciption drugs........something they've never contributed a cent into.
Guess who suffers then....American citizens that have worked hard all their lives, paid their taxes and paid their dues....only to be told that there isn't enough cash to cover the pension fund that they've paid into all of their lives.
Most Canadians don't object to Americans crossing the border....it's the people that want all the benefits but aren't willing to pay the costs, that people object to.

[fauxdough]

The answer is to go after the companies that hire illegal aliens, like Walmart.
Fine them heavily and it will send a message to other companies to not follow their lead.

[Soliel]

Not only are many Americans willing to do this work...but did you know that they are often not hired because they don't fit in with the other workers? Also, it's much easier to take advantage of someone who is fresh from the border, can't speak the language and desperate than it is an American who knows basic workplace rules and rights.

Reminds me. The other day while walking in a nice part of town I saw some construction going on. There was the "Boss" and the Mexican workers. The boss was dressed in NICE clothes, not lifting a finger and he had the newest SUV...all shiny and clean. It made me wonder....how much MORE is he profiting by using cheap labor and having us pay the difference?

The whole thing makes me sick.

A lot of hard working American workers are willing to work for less but are out of work because illegal immigrants come in and do it for cheap.
No taxes are paid out of these wages because they aren't legal employees so the only people that suffer financially, are the American taxpayers....the income from taxes have to come from somewhere.
When these people are too old to work, they'll want to collect the old age pension or welfare, get medical treatment and presciption drugs........something they've never contributed a cent into.
Guess who suffers then....American citizens that have worked hard all their lives, paid their taxes and paid their dues....only to be told that there isn't enough cash to cover the pension fund that they've paid into all of their lives.
Most Canadians don't object to Americans crossing the border....it's the people that want all the benefits but aren't willing to pay the costs, that people object to.

[Texas_dinar]

Yes, but Texas Dinar...this "cheap" labor is not really cheap. We ARE paying for it by subsiding the health care, housing, sometimes welfare, education, incarceration. We are paying for a lot of the stuff the employer should be paying...such as enough to live, health care...so we don't have to.

Also, what is going to happen to all these unfortunate slave class aliens when they age and have NOTHING? What is going to happen to them as they age....again the taxpayer will have to take care of it....because the employers did not pay a decent wage.

Also, many of the jobs they do are in the construction trades...jobs that plenty of natives have done. Have you not read my story on how blacks wanted to clean up the gulf but were turned away because the contractors chose cheap illegal alien labor? Or about how all the security jobs in LA used to be 10.00 or above and unionized with basic benefits...how that has been destroyed because of the influx. Remember the story of the older black lady who is barely living because of this? How can you say this is remotely fair or right? We are talking roofing, construction, paving...many jobs that were once decent paying...that many in some classes in our society relied upon. We are really, really screwing them by turning a blind eye. They are paying the heaviest price by far. It's so easy when you in a profession that is not threatened to simply say "they are nice" and not look deeper into the issue.

It is definitely NOT cheap. There is a price to pay always. And those on the lowest economic rungs of the ladder ARE paying it.

I remember you..me and you are friendly on one message board and at each others throats on other boards...LOL got to love this.

1) I would rather be paying health care to those who need it then to be paying for the other useless stuff the government blows money on.

2) I am not aware of any ILLEGAL immigrants in subsidized housing but that does not mean it is not happening. Most pay their own rent just like you and me and they also help the economy when paying sales tax on items purchased. Some have the advantage of having a legal citizen as a relative who signs them on leases to live in apartments or houses where they pay the taxes so you can have the schools that you do not want them to attend. I do not know about you but I want them to learn how to speak English. (they may all be bunched into one dwelling unit in order to be able to afford the rent but they pay their own.)

3) We do not Incarcerate Illegal aliens..we send them back to their countries.

4) If you owned a business in these struggling times and had a limited income to work with...what would you do? Would you hire someone who may quit the next day because the work is too hard or they are not use to being out in the hot sun, or if they do show up the production or quality of work is less then satisfactory but yet they want wages more then someone who is willing to work hard and do quality work? Where I live at every corner I see signs from Americans saying "will work for food" and they spend all day out there begging. They are healthy enough to work and there are plenty of jobs but they do not want to take the chance of losing their SSI. WE are the ones bringing ourselves down and not the immigrants. It is easy to point the finger but we need to be pointing at ourselves. There are way to many LAZY and SPOILED Americans who choose not to work that is messing up our economy..many Ladies who say "i think I want a raise" then go out and have another child so they can qualify for more money from welfare. People who know damn well they can work would rather sit on their butt on SSI and un-employment and workman comp. People suing hospitals and doctors, corporations...just going sue crazy on cases that really are not even valid just to make a quick buck. People filing claims against Insurance companies that falsify information. Those who lie on their Tax returns. Being "American" does not give anybody the right to be this way


11 million illegal aliens huh..well the ratio of crime for Americans toward one another far surpass the ratio of crime 11 million Illegal aliens have committed.



But you do have a point on the other way of looking at things...The fact that employees do not have to report taxes, to include federal income tax, hurts more then all what you mention above and I think people are terribly mis-understanding my intentions. No I do not agree with immigrants being sent over here illegally but I also vote no to sending them back. There are just to many and it will ultimately hurt our society economically. Like I mentioned earlier...what i think we should do is keep the immigrants we already have. (do a background check to make sure they are not on the run from a crime committed in Mexico or wherever they are from and the ones who have records need to be sent back and the ones that do not have records need to be legalized (this means more money into the government and will also take care of most your concerns above)and while we are doing this the borders need to be rebuilt..to eliminate any holes in the wall where it is easy for them to crawl through and those who are corrupt that are suppose to patrol the borders who accept money in exchange for passage needs to be dealt with. Then we visit the leaders in Mexico (because they seem to be the biggest issue) to see what we can do to make life more pleasant for them so in turn life can be more pleasant for everyone.

[BugmanIraq]

The bugman has a plan.

FIX MEXICO for the MEXICANS!!!

[baz]

Way back in the sixties when we in England had a large flow of Immigrants coming here we were told it was to do the work we English wouldnt do for the low pay and bad conditions,....am I missing something here, as a lot of these people worked beside us doing the very same jobs that were supposed to be the low pay and bad conditions that we wouldnt do, some one caught us on this one I think.
Now we have the very same thing going on here all over again with Eastern Europe, to name just one, plus we are told their own country isn't safe or fit for them to stay in and more to the point the country they leave behind is rubbish, but within weeks of arriving here they start to turn the country into what they left behind and all hell is let loose if they cant get their own way in doing this....again am I missing some thing here.

We here are now past the point of NO return, we have had it big time now.
This is not RACIST remarks, but FACT remarks, remember one thing America....if it CAN happen, it will happen. :wave:

[bagzz]

And do you seriously think that just because you say it, that makes it true?

I remember you..me and you are friendly on one message board and at each others throats on other boards...LOL got to love this.

1) I would rather be paying health care to those who need it then to be paying for the other useless stuff the government blows money on.

<That's nice... But why not get rid of ALL usless, un-needed, fraudulent, and unconstitutional spending instead of saying, "at least this pork isn't as bad as that pork" or "as long as my pet project gets funded, why would I rock the boat?!?">

2) I am not aware of any ILLEGAL immigrants in subsidized housing but that does not mean it is not happening. Most pay their own rent just like you and me and they also help the economy when paying sales tax on items purchased. Some have the advantage of having a legal citizen as a relative who signs them on leases to live in apartments or houses where they pay the taxes so you can have the schools that you do not want them to attend. I do not know about you but I want them to learn how to speak English. (they may all be bunched into one dwelling unit in order to be able to afford the rent but they pay their own.)

3) We do not Incarcerate Illegal aliens..we send them back to their countries.

<That's a blatant lie. Me most certainly do NOT send them back to their countries, we simply let them go for the most part. Unless they've commited a crime, then they are incarcerated. BTW, they should be incarcerated AND deported in every case as soon as they're discovered since the entered the country ILLEGALLY!>

4) If you owned a business in these struggling times and had a limited income to work with...what would you do? Would you hire someone who may quit the next day because the work is too hard or they are not use to being out in the hot sun, or if they do show up the production or quality of work is less then satisfactory but yet they want wages more then someone who is willing to work hard and do quality work? Where I live at every corner I see signs from Americans saying "will work for food" and they spend all day out there begging. They are healthy enough to work and there are plenty of jobs but they do not want to take the chance of losing their SSI. WE are the ones bringing ourselves down and not the immigrants. It is easy to point the finger but we need to be pointing at ourselves. There are way to many LAZY and SPOILED Americans who choose not to work that is messing up our economy..many Ladies who say "i think I want a raise" then go out and have another child so they can qualify for more money from welfare. People who know damn well they can work would rather sit on their butt on SSI and un-employment and workman comp. People suing hospitals and doctors, corporations...just going sue crazy on cases that really are not even valid just to make a quick buck. People filing claims against Insurance companies that falsify information. Those who lie on their Tax returns. Being "American" does not give anybody the right to be this way

< I agree with much of what you say here, but aren't you being somewhat hypocritical? After all, you're calling for a level of responsibility for one's own actions if you're an American citizen, but you want to give illegal aliens a pass on being responsible for their own actions of illegally crossing the border or employers that illegally hire them, you even want to rationalize why beggers won't work, what gives?>


11 million illegal aliens huh..well the ratio of crime for Americans toward one another far surpass the ratio of crime 11 million Illegal aliens have committed.

<This is a blind assertion on your part and furthermore is blatantly false. 11 million of 300 million is 3.6% so illegal aliens constitute 3.6% of the population. Here's some facts:

1. Nine to 13 million illegal criminal aliens presently roam the United States. The number of illegal criminal aliens doubled in the 1990s.

2. Illegal aliens constitute over 25 percent of the federal prison population. In some areas of the country, 12 percent of felonies, 25 percent of burglaries and 34 percent of thefts are committed by illegal aliens.

3. In Los Angeles alone, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicide (which total approximately 1,200-1,500) target illegal aliens. Up to two-thirds of all fugitive felony warrants (approximately 17,000) are for illegal aliens.

So if only 3.6% of the general population is illegal alien but 25% of the prison population is illegal aliens, how can you possibly say that, "the ratio of crime for Americans toward one another far surpass the ratio of crime 11 million Illegal aliens have committed" ? Ridiculous!


But you do have a point on the other way of looking at things...The fact that employees do not have to report taxes, to include federal income tax, hurts more then all what you mention above and I think people are terribly mis-understanding my intentions. No I do not agree with immigrants being sent over here illegally but I also vote no to sending them back. <so much for your call to hold individuals accountable for their own actions, in this case entering the USA illegally> There are just to many and it will ultimately hurt our society economically. Like I mentioned earlier...what i think we should do is keep the immigrants we already have. (do a background check to make sure they are not on the run from a crime committed in Mexico or wherever they are from and the ones who have records need to be sent back and the ones that do not have records need to be legalized (this means more money into the government and will also take care of most your concerns above)and while we are doing this the borders need to be rebuilt..to eliminate any holes in the wall where it is easy for them to crawl through and those who are corrupt that are suppose to patrol the borders who accept money in exchange for passage needs to be dealt with. Then we visit the leaders in Mexico (because they seem to be the biggest issue) to see what we can do to make life more pleasant for them <well that sure sounds like it's not going to cost the American taxpayer any money.... And what about the USA not having the right to interfere with another soverign nation's business?> so in turn life can be more pleasant for everyone.

[paganiniraq]

Not only are many Americans willing to do this work...but did you know that they are often not hired because they don't fit in with the other workers? Also, it's much easier to take advantage of someone who is fresh from the border, can't speak the language and desperate than it is an American who knows basic workplace rules and rights.

Reminds me. The other day while walking in a nice part of town I saw some construction going on. There was the "Boss" and the Mexican workers. The boss was dressed in NICE clothes, not lifting a finger and he had the newest SUV...all shiny and clean. It made me wonder....how much MORE is he profiting by using cheap labor and having us pay the difference?

The whole thing makes me sick.


The irony is...they're leaving their country for all these negative reasons...."in search of a better life here"...then proceed to turn our country into replicas of what they left behind.....
They refuse to learn/use English, fly their own flag, refuse to pay taxes...then whine and protest because we won't "allow them any rights".

[tinkerbell]

my 2 cents worth

a disabeled veteran can be seen by a doctor in about 6 months to
get treatment, if he gets any treatment at all.

but let an illeagle pregnant apply for treatment in a hospital and she
gets it right away, oh, and an interpretor must be supplied by the
hospital while she is there. if no interpretor or treatment is forthcoming
she can sue the hospital and probably win. pollitically correct? K-M-A

legal immigrants have been waiting years to come to the U. S. and now
we are supposed to let 15 mil across the borders come here and demand
legal rights and privilages? once again K-M-A.

Was it Australia or New zealand that told the islamist immigrants
" If you do not respect our flag and our laws, you are requested to
return to your country of origin immediately"
THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THE U.S.A SHOULD DO BUT WON'T BECAUSE
OF THE BLEEDING HEARTS AND ACLU, AND THE POLITICALLY CORRECT,.

ONE FINAL WORD K-M-A-

Tinkerbell

[TiredOfWork]

my 2 cents worth

Was it Australia or New zealand that told the islamist immigrants
" If you do not respect our flag and our laws, you are requested to
return to your country of origin immediately"
THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THE U.S.A SHOULD DO BUT WON'T BECAUSE
OF THE BLEEDING HEARTS AND ACLU, AND THE POLITICALLY CORRECT,.

ONE FINAL WORD K-M-A-

Tinkerbell
It was Australia. Howard has the right idea. Here's a few more of them...

"APPLICANTS for Australian citizenship would sit a basic English test under plans being considered by the Howard Government. The test would examine general knowledge of Australian values, laws and history."

"The Government is also considering training home-grown imams to deliver sermons in English -- to try to make disenchanted Muslim youths feel part of mainstream Australia."

http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,18955132%255E662,00.html

[Michelleirs]

A step in the right direction to get this HUGE problem under control!

http://www.clickondetroit.com/politics/9191199/detail.html

[Texas_dinar]

And do you seriously think that just because you say it, that makes it true?

Oh here goes Mr. pretty in red..you must follow me all over the board..do you have some kind of fetish or what...LOL got to love it.


<That's nice... But why not get rid of ALL useless, un-needed, fraudulent, and unconstitutional spending instead of saying, "at least this pork isn't as bad as that pork" or "as long as my pet project gets funded, why would I rock the boat?!?">



To put the waste problem in perspective, the U.S. government misplaced more money -- in one year -- than the United Nations' oil-for-food scandal did in seven. The Department of the Treasury reported that misplaced money in 2003 totaled $24.5 billion. The estimated missing U.N. money from 1996 to 2003 totals $20 billion.
And during the last five years, the government averaged about $16 billion annually just in misplaced money. Between 1997 and 2003, the Defense Department left unused 270,000 commercial airline tickets totaling $100 million. It also failed to ask for refunds for those fully refundable tickets. And in one year, it paid twice for 27,000 tickets.
Embezzled funds, credit card abuse, Medicare overspending, underwriting fictitious colleges and students, manipulating data to encourage spending, state abuse of funding formulas, income tax overpayment's and redundant federal programs and agencies round out the top 10.

One finding is even more disturbing than the billions of annual government waste: During the last two decades, hundreds of government waste investigations and recommendations routinely have been wasted on an indifferent government.
The guilty pleas of lobbyist Jack Abramoff and former Rep. Randy “Duke” Cunningham illustrate how pork-barrel projects, whether used as currency for re-election or as political favors to well-connected individuals or businesses, can corrupt the political process. The historic lack of restraint in the appropriations process has helped create a projected $371 billion budget deficit in fiscal 2006 and a national debt of $8.5 trillion. Whether the lobbying scandal and the outrage of taxpayers over “bridges to nowhere” will force Congress to cut the pork remains to be seen.
The 2006 Congressional Pig Book is the latest installment of Citizens Against Government Waste’s (CAGW) 16-year exposé of pork-barrel spending. This year’s list includes but are not limited to: $13,500,000 for the International Fund for Ireland, which helped finance the World Toilet Summit; $6,435,000 for wood utilization research; $1,000,000 for the Water free Urinal Conservation Initiative; and $500,000 for the Sparta Teapot Museum in Sparta, N.C....which shows a small portion of how our money is going down the drain.

Aren't you glad you paid your taxes? :rolleye03



<That's a blatant lie. Me most certainly do NOT send them back to their countries, we simply let them go for the most part. Unless they've committed a crime, then they are incarcerated. BTW, they should be incarcerated AND deported in every case as soon as they're discovered since the entered the country ILLEGALLY!>

My friend...if they are picked up for committing a crime and they find that the person is not a legal citizen then they do send them back..they are only incarcerated if they have papers.

< I agree with much of what you say here, but aren't you being somewhat hypocritical? After all, you're calling for a level of responsibility for one's own actions if you're an American citizen, but you want to give illegal aliens a pass on being responsible for their own actions of illegally crossing the border or employers that illegally hire them, you even want to rationalize why baggers won't work, what gives?>

As mentioned below... If we could keep and legalize the ones who have no negative history that are already here..i never said a continuance of entry for illegal aliens, then many problems would be solved. If they chose not to be legalized then they go back to Mexico or wherever they are from. For some reason the illegal aliens in question has better work ethics then many Americans and are willing to do jobs that most Americans will not do.



<This is a blind assertion on your part and furthermore is blatantly false. 11 million of 300 million is 3.6% so illegal aliens constitute 3.6% of the population. Here's some facts:

1. Nine to 13 million illegal criminal aliens presently roam the United States. The number of illegal criminal aliens doubled in the S.

2. Illegal aliens constitute over 25 percent of the federal prison population. In some areas of the country, 12 percent of felonies, 25 percent of burglaries and 34 percent of thefts are committed by illegal aliens.

3. In Los Angeles alone, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicide (which total approximately 1,200-1,500) target illegal aliens. Up to two-thirds of all fugitive felony warrants (approximately 17,000) are for illegal aliens.

So if only 3.6% of the general population is illegal alien but 25% of the prison population is illegal aliens, how can you possibly say that, "the ratio of crime for Americans toward one another far surpass the ratio of crime 11 million Illegal aliens have committed" ? Ridiculous!



EOIR permits criminal aliens who have a Green Card to stay in the United States even if criminal conviction makes them deportable. A Green Card signifies lawful permanent resident (LPR) status. Any illegal alien who has been a LPR for five years becomes eligible for naturalization. Once naturalized, the illegal alien cannot be deported no matter how egregious a criminal. What you talk of is not illegal aliens.





EOIR Immigration Court judges grant non-resident cancellation of removal. Note those three negatives. In English that means that the judge grants an LPR Green Card to a deportable illegal alien if he has lived illegally in America for 10 years and has a spouse, parent, or child who is a citizen or LPR. This provides incentive to any fertile male or female illegal alien, decent or criminal, to immediately beget in marriage or out of wedlock an Anchor Baby who at birth becomes an instant citizen eligible for all welfare benefits. The Anchor Baby or citizen spouse becomes the legal pivot point. If the deportable criminal illegal alien's deportation could cause exceptional and extremely unusual hardship to the qualifying citizen relative, he stays.





To be sure we are talking about the same people...I repeat myself...ILLEGAL aliens are held..if there is enough space for them to be held..until they are deported. The aliens who qualify for the above and committ a crime are caught are incarcerated.




I remember watching this show on TV..it was so funny..it made me laugh...:lmao: It was about these black people who enter a store and are immediately harassed by the security..while the black people are being harassed some white people walk in and are greeted nicely then attention went back to the blacks...while the blacks was being harassed, the whites was stealing the store blind. I am talking about the real world my friend and not statistics because everyone who is anyone knows that minorities in America are harassed far more then any race..and if the world was turned upside down...there would be a hell of alot more white people in jails then what we see now. Have you ever traveled to a black neighborhood or a mexican neighborhood? Have you visited their school systems and what there is to offer for these Americans versus what is available in the white American neighborhoods? As much as you all think that a illegal immigrant has it cozy..have you ever visit an area where most illegal aliens live? In most areas' they have it worse then the American blacks and Mexicans.There was a time when blacks was looked down on the same way as the illegal immigrants was looked down upon and the blacks was considered Legal. These days fortunately the blacks get to take a break while the Hispanics take the forefront.

Statistics..I stopped believing what i see on paper after bush cheated his way into office by rigging the voting booths, when the so called proof of weapons of mass destruction never existed, and the list goes on pertaining to how files can be easily manipulated by man to control mankind.




<so much for your call to hold individuals accountable for their own actions, in this case entering the USA illegally> No No No..my freind...you are not letting this soak in...read below a little slower..I said I do not agree to sending them back..never mentioned anything about the continuance of them to illegally come over here.

<well that sure sounds like it's not going to cost the American taxpayer any money.... And what about the USA not having the right to interfere with another sovereign nation's business?> Well, as we learned by the Iraq war..you have to give a little sometime to move forward but i am sure the cost from this problem will not be as costly as the Iraq war has cost us.

[Soliel]

I recently looked into moving to New Zealand. It was interesting how strict they were. You either had to have at least 700,000 money to invest into the country OR you had to have 2 years of a skilled and needed trade AND you had to be of GOOD CHARACTER. IT goes by a point system where you have to have many positive traits to even think of becoming a citizen.

Meanwhile, here in the US...we let in criminals, those who have transmittable diseases and those who work in industries where we have plenty here that will do the job...think the tech industry that has been ruined by the influx of HB1 folks.

Would it be nice if we actually thought about our actual needs and the needs of Americans first rather than those who profit from cheap labor? Yes, that would be.

[Soliel]

I don't agree at all that minorities are "harrassed". I don't believe it. And I don't believe that their neighborhoods are the way they are because of some kind of oppression.

I have a friend who lives in one of those neighborhoods...he is poor but even he agrees...the reason that it is hell is not because whites "harass" them it's because of values. Even my friend says they litter more in the inner city, they have little or no respect for private property, there is more stealing, more violence. Even he agrees...it's the ATTITUDE that makes life hell, not the poverty.

And I agree with him. After working in the public school system for many years...and hearing the drumbeat that it's MONEY that is the problem...I saw very clearly, it wasn't MONEY it was values. What makes a school a dream to work in or a hellhole is the VALUES of those who attend. The attitude of the children makes the difference. Sure, money makes some things nice but all the money in the world cannot buy consideration, respect and a desire for learning. I saw clearly that this is what was missing.

That is not to say there are not children or people in these neighborhoods with good attitudes, there are...but what makes the general feeling in a neighborhood, poor or not, is the people who inhabit them, not the money spent.

I also don't agree that the Mexicans are taking the place of Blacks as being "looked down upon". Honestly, I don't look down upon anyone who is good who has good values...but you are wrong about this. How do I know? Because I have met several blacks who complain of the racism against them coming from...ta da.... MEXICANS. Yes, it is true. Often Mexicans are the ones doing the looking down, not whites. And it's worse because at the same time they are taking jobs that used to be decent paying and making them poverty wages. Honestly, it's so easy to be a protected person and say immigration is just fine when it isn't you who is suffering the real life consequences. If there is one thing I fault whites for is putting their heads in the sand...especially the ones with money and who are protected. They don't have to deal with the nitty gritty pain it causes...and so to feel good about themselves...they are extremely liberal about it without thinking of the suffering their "do gooder" policies have wrought.

[Gluphus]

I have to agree and disagree with everything. We are all wrong, yet right.

IMHO, the issue should be placed on the shoulders of the policy makers that
*encourage illegal activity
*enable illegal activity and exploitation

From my view up here, it seems both the illegals and the legals/citizens are being drawn into a fight while the policy makers on the side look on, waiting to fight until both competitors (illegals and legals/citizens) are too tired to fight back.

For the illegals, I see:
*instability
*the frustration of building the temples, but sleeping with the dogs.
*alienation
*dissapointment
*basic slavery

For the legals, I see:
*wage wars driving incomes too low to sustain a family (w/o taking out a home equity loan)
*future capital and assets depleted to pay for social services for illegals

etc...

In essence, the only people that win in this set up are those Wahlberg Dillon Reed types.... from what I see, the fight/anger should not be with the illegals (and they are illegal, ergo, not afforded rights and protections), but with the powers that are supposed to be looking out for the best interests of this country.

We could argue this till we are blue in the face, yet nothing will happen, except the 069* zip will get richer with every passing day. The only solution is to force the beltway to get tough on this issue. ( :lmao: like that is gonna happen...)

[bagzz]

Oh here goes Mr. pretty in red..you must follow me all over the board..do you have some kind of fetish or what...LOL got to love it.


<That's nice... But why not get rid of ALL useless, un-needed, fraudulent, and unconstitutional spending instead of saying, "at least this pork isn't as bad as that pork" or "as long as my pet project gets funded, why would I rock the boat?!?">

To put the waste problem in perspective, the U.S. government misplaced more money -- in one year -- than the United Nations' oil-for-food scandal did in seven. The Department of the Treasury reported that misplaced money in 2003 totaled $24.5 billion. The estimated missing U.N. money from 1996 to 2003 totals $20 billion.
How does comparing apples to orange peels put things in perspective?

And during the last five years, the government averaged about $16 billion annually just in misplaced money. Between 1997 and 2003, the Defense Department left unused 270,000 commercial airline tickets totaling $100 million. It also failed to ask for refunds for those fully refundable tickets. And in one year, it paid twice for 27,000 tickets.
Embezzled funds, credit card abuse, Medicare overspending, underwriting fictitious colleges and students, manipulating data to encourage spending, state abuse of funding formulas, income tax overpayment's and redundant federal programs and agencies round out the top 10.

One finding is even more disturbing than the billions of annual government waste: During the last two decades, hundreds of government waste investigations and recommendations routinely have been wasted on an indifferent government.
The guilty pleas of lobbyist Jack Abramoff and former Rep. Randy “Duke” Cunningham illustrate how pork-barrel projects, whether used as currency for re-election or as political favors to well-connected individuals or businesses, can corrupt the political process. The historic lack of restraint in the appropriations process has helped create a projected $371 billion budget deficit in fiscal 2006 and a national debt of $8.5 trillion. Whether the lobbying scandal and the outrage of taxpayers over “bridges to nowhere” will force Congress to cut the pork remains to be seen.
The 2006 Congressional Pig Book is the latest installment of Citizens Against Government Waste’s (CAGW) 16-year exposé of pork-barrel spending. This year’s list includes but are not limited to: $13,500,000 for the International Fund for Ireland, which helped finance the World Toilet Summit; $6,435,000 for wood utilization research; $1,000,000 for the Water free Urinal Conservation Initiative; and $500,000 for the Sparta Teapot Museum in Sparta, N.C....which shows a small portion of how our money is going down the drain.

Aren't you glad you paid your taxes? :rolleye03
So we are in agreement, the government is corrupt and wastes taxpayer dollars at an alarming rate! Good, funny how every solution you seem to come up with costs more taxpayer dollars and/or increases the power of government though!

<That's a blatant lie. Me most certainly do NOT send them back to their countries, we simply let them go for the most part. Unless they've committed a crime, then they are incarcerated. BTW, they should be incarcerated AND deported in every case as soon as they're discovered since the entered the country ILLEGALLY!>

My friend...if they are picked up for committing a crime and they find that the person is not a legal citizen then they do send them back..they are only incarcerated if they have papers.
Again, just because you say it, or that's what you want to believe, or that's the way you understood it to be, doesn't make it a fact simply because you posted it in a discussion! Let me state this clearly. You are wrong! If they are picked up for committing a crime they are punished and incarcerated (as they should be!), that's why our prisons are full of them! http://usinfo.state.gov/eap/Archive_Index/Prepared_Testimony_by_John_M._Morganelli.html

Despite the voices of those who naively believe that the influx of this estimated 9 to 13 million illegal aliens into the United States is a positive thing, the fact of the matter is that illegal immigration is having an extremely negative impact upon America at many levels. Unfortunately, the majority of illegal aliens who are here are engaged in criminal activity. Identity theft, use of fraudulent social security numbers and green cards, tax evasion, driving without licenses represent some of the crimes that are engaged in by the majority of illegal aliens on a daily basis merely to maintain and hide their illegal status. In addition, violent crime and drug distribution and possession is also prevalent among illegal aliens. Over 25% of today's federal prison population are illegal aliens. In some areas of the country, 12% of felonies, 25% of burglaries and 34% of thefts are committed by illegal aliens. The numerous crimes being committed by illegal aliens such as identity theft, fraud and use of false identification is causing havoc with record-keeping systems including but not limited to Social Security, income tax and other compilation of data that we have routinely relied upon for accuracy and identity verification. Just about every day, municipal and state police come in contact with illegal aliens who are utilizing fraudulent documents, false names and other people's identities. Identification of these individuals is impossible and, quite frankly, many of the illegal aliens committing crimes here in the United States have criminal records from their country of origin which cannot be ascertained because of their continuous use of false identities. Clearly, in addition to being a crime issue, the growing population of illegal aliens in the United States is without a doubt the single most important national security issue facing us. As an example of that, in May 2002 federal agents arrested 2 Egyptian nationals for trying to smuggle illegal Middle Eastern immigrants into New Jersey by way of Mexico. For a fee of $8,000.00, court documents showed the suspected smuggling ring flew customers on tourist visas to Brazil, then sent them to Guatemala through Mexico and finally across the southwest border into the U.S. With regard to our northern border in Blaine, Washington, a retired Deputy Chief of Border Patrol Agent Eugene Davis stated recently that there has been no effort to locate 95% of aliens apprehended in his region over the past 10 years and released pending deportation hearings. According to Davis, these illegal aliens have simply been allowed to disappear into the United States. No one knows whether a number of these missing persons are trained terrorists who will emerge to perpetrate more acts of terrorism inside the United States.

< I agree with much of what you say here, but aren't you being somewhat hypocritical? After all, you're calling for a level of responsibility for one's own actions if you're an American citizen, but you want to give illegal aliens a pass on being responsible for their own actions of illegally crossing the border or employers that illegally hire them, you even want to rationalize why baggers won't work, what gives?>

As mentioned below... If we could keep and legalize the ones who have no negative history that are already here..i never said a continuance of entry for illegal aliens, then many problems would be solved. If they chose not to be legalized then they go back to Mexico or wherever they are from. For some reason the illegal aliens in question has better work ethics then many Americans and are willing to do jobs that most Americans will not do.
What I bolded and underlined is simply another blind assertion by you that you can't back-up. It may be what you believe, it may even be what you really, really, really want to believe, but that doesn't make it true. Besides, it's a racist statement as well, saying that Mexicans have better work ethics and are willing to do jobs Americans are unwilling to do, racist! Besides, if that were the case, wouldn't Mexico have a more booming economy than the US since their workers had such a better work ethic? Come on....

[bagzz]

<This is a blind assertion on your part and furthermore is blatantly false. 11 million of 300 million is 3.6% so illegal aliens constitute 3.6% of the population. Here's some facts:

1. Nine to 13 million illegal criminal aliens presently roam the United States. The number of illegal criminal aliens doubled in the S.

2. Illegal aliens constitute over 25 percent of the federal prison population. In some areas of the country, 12 percent of felonies, 25 percent of burglaries and 34 percent of thefts are committed by illegal aliens.

3. In Los Angeles alone, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicide (which total approximately 1,200-1,500) target illegal aliens. Up to two-thirds of all fugitive felony warrants (approximately 17,000) are for illegal aliens.

So if only 3.6% of the general population is illegal alien but 25% of the prison population is illegal aliens, how can you possibly say that, "the ratio of crime for Americans toward one another far surpass the ratio of crime 11 million Illegal aliens have committed" ? Ridiculous!

EOIR permits criminal aliens who have a Green Card to stay in the United States even if criminal conviction makes them deportable. A Green Card signifies lawful permanent resident (LPR) status. Any illegal alien who has been a LPR for five years becomes eligible for naturalization. Once naturalized, the illegal alien cannot be deported no matter how egregious a criminal. What you talk of is not illegal aliens.
No, what I talk about most certainly ARE illegal aliens! If they are given a green card later or not is beside the point, and irrelevant to the overall discussion. They are still illegal aliens if they entered illegal. What YOU are talking about is a process by which a few illegal aliens become naturalized, not the overall problem.

EOIR Immigration Court judges grant non-resident cancellation of removal. Note those three negatives. In English that means that the judge grants an LPR Green Card to a deportable illegal alien if he has lived illegally in America for 10 years and has a spouse, parent, or child who is a citizen or LPR. This provides incentive to any fertile male or female illegal alien, decent or criminal, to immediately beget in marriage or out of wedlock an Anchor Baby who at birth becomes an instant citizen eligible for all welfare benefits. The Anchor Baby or citizen spouse becomes the legal pivot point. If the deportable criminal illegal alien's deportation could cause exceptional and extremely unusual hardship to the qualifying citizen relative, he stays.

Are you actually trying to argue that this is a GOOD thing?

To be sure we are talking about the same people...I repeat myself...ILLEGAL aliens are held..if there is enough space for them to be held..until they are deported. The aliens who qualify for the above and committ a crime are caught are incarcerated.
All you cited were examples of amnesty, (exactly the opposite of deportation) how does that bolster your case?

I remember watching this show on TV..it was so funny..it made me laugh...:lmao: It was about these black people who enter a store and are immediately harassed by the security..while the black people are being harassed some white people walk in and are greeted nicely then attention went back to the blacks...while the blacks was being harassed, the whites was stealing the store blind. I am talking about the real world my friend and not statistics because everyone who is anyone knows that minorities in America are harassed far more then any race..and if the world was turned upside down...there would be a hell of alot more white people in jails then what we see now. Have you ever traveled to a black neighborhood or a Mexican neighborhood? Have you visited their school systems and what there is to offer for these Americans versus what is available in the white American neighborhoods? As much as you all think that a illegal immigrant has it cozy..have you ever visit an area where most illegal aliens live? In most areas' they have it worse then the American blacks and Mexicans.There was a time when blacks was looked down on the same way as the illegal immigrants was looked down upon and the blacks was considered Legal. These days fortunately the blacks get to take a break while the Hispanics take the forefront.
You are obviously a blatant racist! The poor black shoppers are harassed while the evil white punks were treated well and "stealing the store blind". Your assessment? "..it was so funny..it made me laugh...:lmao: " Furthermore you say that minorities are harassed more than other races (if you group "minorities" like that they outnumber whites though) and there really SHOULD be more whites in jail and if somebody lives in a bad neighborhood, it's the fault of those who don't live there more than the fault of those who do, blah, blah, blah... You are a racist and a hypocrite.

Statistics..I stopped believing what i see on paper after bush cheated his way into office by rigging the voting booths, when the so called proof of weapons of mass destruction never existed, and the list goes on pertaining to how files can be easily manipulated by man to control mankind.
Now that's funny!! Instead of believing what you see on paper you base your beliefs on what exactly? Well it's clear that you base your beliefs on what you believe, of course!! You believe that bush cheated his way into office by rigging the voting booth's..... **POOF** Magically that is now your reality! (I would guess that you read that somewhere, but you don't believe what you see on paper, but that's what you believe.... It's all so confusing!!!! Or did you just come up with that rigged voting booth scenario on your own? Somehow, according to your worldview, that actually makes more sense than that you read it somewhere...) How wonderful it must be for you! If you choose not to believe something, it's false. If you choose to believe something, it's true. How very tedious it is for the rest of us mere mortals that must toil in the realities of the real world.:crying:

<so much for your call to hold individuals accountable for their own actions, in this case entering the USA illegally> No No No..my freind...you are not letting this soak in...read below a little slower..I said I do not agree to sending them back..never mentioned anything about the continuance of them to illegally come over here. Sending them back is HOW you hold them accountable! As opposed to NOT sending them back, which rewards the illegal behavior by giving them what they want. Question, if you grant amnesty to all illegals that are here instead of deport them, is it more or less likely that more aliens will try to get here illegally? Sorry, I had to ask that in the form of a written question using actual words. I simply am not fluent in your language of blind faith.

<well that sure sounds like it's not going to cost the American taxpayer any money.... And what about the USA not having the right to interfere with another sovereign nation's business?> Well, as we learned by the Iraq war..you have to give a little sometime to move forward but i am sure the cost from this problem will not be as costly as the Iraq war has cost us.
There you go, complain about federal spending at the start of your post and finish with a bang by rationalizing federal spending! Wouldn't expect anything less from you. :wave: thanks for playing!

[Texas_dinar]

No, what I talk about most certainly ARE illegal aliens! If they are given a green card later or not is beside the point, and irrelevant to the overall discussion. They are still illegal aliens if they entered illegal. What YOU are talking about is a process by which a few illegal aliens become naturalized, not the overall problem.

If an illegal alien enter during the time when they are considered illegal and they are caught then they are deported. As time pass and they qualify for a green card or naturalization or they become citizens via other portals such as marriage they are considered LEGAL and must heed to our legal system and if then they break the law they get arrested and incarcerated.

Are you actually trying to argue that this is a GOOD thing?

All you cited were examples of amnesty, (exactly the opposite of deportation) how does that bolster your case?


You are obviously a blatant racist! The poor black shoppers are harassed while the evil white punks were treated well and "stealing the store blind". Your assessment? "..it was so funny..it made me laugh...:lmao: " Furthermore you say that minorities are harassed more than other races (if you group "minorities" like that they outnumber whites though) and there really SHOULD be more whites in jail and if somebody lives in a bad neighborhood, it's the fault of those who don't live there more than the fault of those who do, blah, blah, blah... You are a racist and a hypocrite.

I used the shopper story as a sarcastic example of the FACTS! For you to use the racist card to try and cover this up is ludicrous. Oh my god...your opinion on it is the fault of the people who live there is crazy..they are simply not given the same opportunities of those who do not live there...that simple. I ask you this...why is most white areas in New Orleans starting to look much better while the black areas are still filled with debri and almost as bad as when the incident happened? FACTS!!! I look at things that the media does not cover and manipulate.


Now that's funny!! Instead of believing what you see on paper you base your beliefs on what exactly? Well it's clear that you base your beliefs on what you believe, of course!! You believe that bush cheated his way into office by rigging the voting booth's..... **POOF** Magically that is now your reality! (I would guess that you read that somewhere, but you don't believe what you see on paper, but that's what you believe.... It's all so confusing!!!! Or did you just come up with that rigged voting booth scenario on your own? Somehow, according to your worldview, that actually makes more sense than that you read it somewhere...) How wonderful it must be for you! If you choose not to believe something, it's false. If you choose to believe something, it's true. How very tedious it is for the rest of us mere mortals that must toil in the realities of the real world.:crying:
In georgia..among other places..more minorities came out to vote then ever before in history...tell me why in only democratic areas did the machines malfunction causing lines hours long while in Republican areas the machines had no problems. And what happened in Florida is another Oprah Winfrey show with George winning the state while his brother is Governor of Florida. Come on dude. Unlike you..I think OUTside of the box and not believe everything I hear and read.

Sending them back is HOW you hold them accountable! As opposed to NOT sending them back, which rewards the illegal behavior by giving them what they want. Question, if you grant amnesty to all illegals that are here instead of deport them, is it more or less likely that more aliens will try to get here illegally? Sorry, I had to ask that in the form of a written question using actual words. I simply am not fluent in your language of blind faith.

Well, we are going in circles on this on my friend..i already stated my views as to why i feel it would be more beneficial for the ones who qualify to be legalized could stay and then pay taxes like you and i do and thus taking care of alot of concerns.


There you go, complain about federal spending at the start of your post and finish with a bang by rationalizing federal spending! Wouldn't expect anything less from you. :wave: thanks for playing!

OK well this was fun and i see no reason to keep going back and forth on this.

[BEEFCAKE]

! The poor black shoppers are harassed while the evil white punks were treated well and "stealing the store blind". Your assessment? "..it was so funny..it made me laugh...:lmao: " Furthermore you say that minorities are harassed more than other races (if you group "minorities" like that they outnumber whites though) and there really SHOULD be more whites in jail and if somebody lives in a bad neighborhood, it's the fault of those who don't live there more than the fault of those who do, blah, blah, blah... You are a racist and a hypocrite.

I used the shopper story as a sarcastic example of the FACTS! For you to use the racist card to try and cover this up is ludicrous. Oh my god...your opinion on it is the fault of the people who live there is crazy..they are simply not given the same opportunities of those who do not live there...that simple. I ask you this...why is most white areas in New Orleans starting to look much better while the black areas are still filled with debri and almost as bad as when the incident happened? FACTS!!! I look at things that the media does not cover and manipulate.


Dude, you can't use TV shows as example of facts. Even though I watched superman, I keep smashing into the ground everytime I step off my roof. But I will try again and let you know.

[bagzz]

I said, in part:



You are obviously a blatant racist! The poor black shoppers are harassed while the evil white punks were treated well and "stealing the store blind". Your assessment? "..it was so funny..it made me laugh...:lmao: " Furthermore you say that minorities are harassed more than other races (if you group "minorities" like that they outnumber whites though) and there really SHOULD be more whites in jail and if somebody lives in a bad neighborhood, it's the fault of those who don't live there more than the fault of those who do, blah, blah, blah... You are a racist and a hypocrite.

You responded:
I used the shopper story as a sarcastic example of the FACTS! For you to use the racist card to try and cover this up is ludicrous. Oh my god...your opinion on it is the fault of the people who live there is crazy..they are simply not given the same opportunities of those who do not live there...that simple. I ask you this...why is most white areas in New Orleans starting to look much better while the black areas are still filled with debri and almost as bad as when the incident happened? FACTS!!! I look at things that the media does not cover and manipulate.

Dude, you can't use TV shows as example of facts. Even though I watched superman, I keep smashing into the ground everytime I step off my roof. But I will try again and let you know.
First off, where did YOU use the shopper story? It was posted by Texas_dinar ?!?!? But that's ok, it seems that when T_D can't stand the heat, he/she/it not only gets out of the kitchen, he/she/it leaves the entire neighborhood! And so I'm stuck with "BEEFCAKE" who informs me that the shopper story where blacks are all innocent victims and whites are all lawbreakers that get away with anything is an example of FACTS!!!! But to infer that this view is in any way racist is "ludicrous" and that I'm "covering something up".

"Oh my god...your opinion on it is the fault of the people who live there is crazy..they are simply not given the same opportunities of those who do not live there...that simple."
Is that my opinion, where did I say that? I simply pointed out that T_D was over-simplifying the situation by putting the blame entirely on people that don't live in those nighborhoods. You take it a step further and outright state that it's everybody else's fault and punctuated it with a "...that simple". No, it's not "That simple".

"I ask you this...why is most white areas in New Orleans starting to look much better while the black areas are still filled with debri and almost as bad as when the incident happened? FACTS!!! I look at things that the media does not cover and manipulate."
First of all, I didn't know there were "white areas" and "black areas" in New Orleans! You say "FACTS!!!" after posting a hypithetical, rhetorical question, that makes absolutely no sense, and just because you post it, doesn't make it a FACT!!! I must have been reading a different map or missed something on the streetsigns the many times I was there! Perhaps the reason that some areas have improved more rapidly than others is because in some areas (gasp, even some "black" areas) the residents have begun fixing it themselves while in other areas (could some possibly be "white"?) they are waiting for somebody to do it for them!

"I look at things that the media does not cover and manipulate."
Good for you, your mama must be so proud, fighting the evil conservative media bias!

"Dude, you can't use TV shows as example of facts. Even though I watched superman, I keep smashing into the ground everytime I step off my roof. But I will try again and let you know."
Perhaps this explains a lot, you must be repeatedly landing on your head!:lmao:

[bagzz]

Was reading your post wrong, my responses were obviously for Texas_dinar!!

[BRYAN]

PLEASE DISCUSS THIS SENSITIVE SUBJECT WITH RESPECT FOR OTHER MEMBERS

this thread will be locked if disrespectful statements continue

[BEEFCAKE]

Was reading your post wrong, my responses were obviously for Texas_dinar!!

quite alright bagzz, still working on my landing:lmao:

[Lux]

PLEASE DISCUSS THIS SENSITIVE SUBJECT WITH RESPECT FOR OTHER MEMBERS

this thread will be locked if disrespectful statements continue
In fairness to all who are discussing respectfully, we will reject any further disrespectful statements and allow others to continue to discuss.

[Soliel]

I don't see how anyone can be for paying the health care costs of illegal aliens or any immigrant for that matter. Is it not obvious that we cannot pay and pay and pay without giving something up in return? The money does not come out of nowhere. Basic mental health care for citizens was destroyed in CA yet illegals get everything, even braces. How can anyone say this is fair or right? I don't have a right to go to any country I want and expect them to pay for my babies and healthcare. You have to give something back for a long time and be loyal to that country.

TexasDinar you are so wrong about the incarceration. Illegals are being incarcerated and NOT being sent back. Period. I'll find the exact facts for you if you wish. They have incarceration rates that are much higher than the percentage of the population. That means as a group, they have more criminals.

They are also getting subsidized housing, food stamps and in California, braces. All the while Americans who are citizens cannot.

You are also incorrect about the taxes. They are NOT paying their share. I know this because I know an illegal alien myself. I know him well. He is ALWAYS paid under the table with no taxes. This is not his fault, but the fault of our government and business owners who choose to cheat.

Do you benefit personally from illegal alien labor? Your worldview seems to be coming from someone who does.

I am not sure if I am interested in discussing this anymore. If we can't even agree on the facts and figures what is the purpose? All of us can come up with facts and all it is is denied. At that point, it's just an emotional argument.

I guess it all comes down to what and who you care about. I care deeply about the poor amongst us whose wages are degraded because of extreme immigration. I care deeply about those whose hospitals have shut down because of too many immigrants without health care. I care very much about the black community who has had their schools razed for new schools for illegal aliens at an alarming rate. I care deeply for those Americans who have paid taxes and truly need mental health or even welfare but are denied because they are the wrong color. I also care for every American who has been a victim of crime because of our lax immigration laws. The social costs are high...I feel for every policeman, every border agent...anyone who has been killed by these people. Some do not care about these things. Some just want cheap labor that is easy and convenient for them. Some think it's OK to have all the costs of that labor and put it on taxpayers. I am not one of them.

[Soliel]

yes, the suffering of those in other countries deserve thought...but it is senseless and futile to take care of them before your own citizens and at their detriment. Right now, perhaps we are being compassionate to immigrants but very uncompassionate to many Americans. Also, by ignoring the corruption of Mexico that has caused this mess, it only perpetuates the wealth of the ruling class and nothing will change in Mexico.

But the truth is, it's not about compassion at all. It's about having a huge number of desperate, easily maleable workers to use up and exploit. It's about getting out of paying taxes and avoiding fair wages. It's about money, pure and simple.

[bagzz]

...... when dealing with people that are blinded by ideology!


I don't see how anyone can be for paying the health care costs of illegal aliens or any immigrant for that matter. Is it not obvious that we cannot pay and pay and pay without giving something up in return? The money does not come out of nowhere. Basic mental health care for citizens was destroyed in CA yet illegals get everything, even braces. How can anyone say this is fair or right? I don't have a right to go to any country I want and expect them to pay for my babies and healthcare. You have to give something back for a long time and be loyal to that country.

TexasDinar you are so wrong about the incarceration. Illegals are being incarcerated and NOT being sent back. Period. I'll find the exact facts for you if you wish. <<What would be the point? Texas_dinar would simply state that he/she/it doesn't believe it, or simply ignore it.>> They have incarceration rates that are much higher than the percentage of the population. That means as a group, they have more criminals.

They are also getting subsidized housing, food stamps and in California, braces. All the while Americans who are citizens cannot.

You are also incorrect about the taxes. They are NOT paying their share. I know this because I know an illegal alien myself. I know him well. He is ALWAYS paid under the table with no taxes. This is not his fault, but the fault of our government and business owners who choose to cheat.

Do you benefit personally from illegal alien labor? Your worldview seems to be coming from someone who does.

I am not sure if I am interested in discussing this anymore. If we can't even agree on the facts and figures what is the purpose? All of us can come up with facts and all it is is denied. At that point, it's just an emotional argument.
<<I disagree! Facts are facts, they don't have to be agreed upon or not. What can be agreed/disagreed upon are the conclusion and/or opinions that we draw from the facts. However, it is pointless when somebody states thier opinion as if it were fact and dismisses facts that are provided simply because they don't agree with thier opinions.>>

I guess it all comes down to what and who you care about. I care deeply about the poor amongst us whose wages are degraded because of extreme immigration. I care deeply about those whose hospitals have shut down because of too many immigrants without health care. I care very much about the black community who has had their schools razed for new schools for illegal aliens at an alarming rate. I care deeply for those Americans who have paid taxes and truly need mental health or even welfare but are denied because they are the wrong color. I also care for every American who has been a victim of crime because of our lax immigration laws. The social costs are high...I feel for every policeman, every border agent...anyone who has been killed by these people. Some do not care about these things. Some just want cheap labor that is easy and convenient for them. Some think it's OK to have all the costs of that labor and put it on taxpayers. I am not one of them.

This statement from Texas_dinar in post #102 tells the whole story:
In georgia..among other places..more minorities came out to vote then ever before in history...tell me why in only democratic areas did the machines malfunction causing lines hours long while in Republican areas the machines had no problems. And what happened in Florida is another Oprah Winfrey show with George winning the state while his brother is Governor of Florida. Come on dude. Unlike you..I think OUTside of the box and not believe everything I hear and read.
Instead of showing that something happened by providing a reference, he/she/it simply asserts it, "In georgia..among other places..more minorities came out to vote then ever before in history...tell me why in only democratic areas did the machines malfunction causing lines hours long while in Republican areas the machines had no problems."
I've heard this assertion before, but there is no proof that voting machines malfunctioned only in democratic areas or that the malfunctions resulted in anybody one group being unable to cast their vote. However, it is well documented how democrats were given more opportunity to vote, to vote illegally, or to have dead people vote as long as they were voting for names with a (D) beside them in Saint Loius and other places:
http://bond.senate.gov/atwork/recordtopic.cfm?id=181127
And so what we witnessed in St. Louis was a premeditated effort to keep the polls open late in St. Louis, an overwhelmingly Democrat-controlled city, because an aide to a Democrat candidate for U.S. Congress feared he would be unable to vote even though he had already voted that day.

It sounds incredible – but it is true. It is right there in the record. We have the court transcript and the all the records that document this scheme.

And you know what? The judge approved the request. And the polls were kept open late. Until that order was overturned later in the evening.

The effort to keep the polls open late in st. Louis was not the only voting “irregularity” on election day. Elsewhere in town, a panel of city judges was rubber-stamping court orders to allow unregistered people to vote.

A subsequent investigation by missouri’s secretary of state found that at least 1,233 st. Louis city and st. Louis county residents were illegally allowed to vote even though they were not registered to do so.
But I assume that since this shows democrats in a bad light, it will be ignored or marginalized by T_d and the like.

So Texas_dinar continues:
"And what happened in Florida is another Oprah Winfrey show with George winning the state while his brother is Governor of Florida. Come on dude. Unlike you..I think OUTside of the box and not believe everything I hear and read. "

Clearly doing a bit of research is out of the question, instead, if it's on Oprah, it's irrefutable! I wonder if anybody would ever be able to question it if it were on Dr. Phil as well!

Since Bush's brother is the governer of Florida, the only logical conclusion to T_d is that it's cheating if Bush wins that particular state. Of course, the voters have no say in the outcome, Jeb Bush "gave" his bro the win. The only way that it would have been a fair election is for Bush to lose the state... Oh, and why are we still talking about the election 6 years ago, isn't it time to MoveOn.org?

No clearly Texas_dinar does think "outside the box", that particular box being reality. How do we know this? Why T_d tells us so, "..not believe everything I hear and read. " No, you only believe what you want to believe out of everything you see and read!

[dannykimji]

I READ AND READ AND HERE IS THE BOTTOM LINE AND THE REST OF THE TRUE. THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO REMAIN QUIET. THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO I THINK YOU KNOW THE REST! IT'S iLLEGAL IT'S THE LAW.RIGHT OR WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!

[bagzz]

I READ AND READ AND HERE IS THE BOTTOM LINE AND THE REST OF THE TRUE. THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO REMAIN QUIET. THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO I THINK YOU KNOW THE REST! IT'S iLLEGAL IT'S THE LAW.RIGHT OR WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for clearing that up for us all!

[niss0001]

These immigrants have been here for decades doing work white people won't do they are very hard workers they do serve the country well in many ways, putting produce on our shelfs, finishing concrete in 105 degree hot sun, ect. BUT they are blowing it big time, they are way out of line and its about damn time we secure the boardars and make them get in line with the proper paper work. My parents came from Germany via canada and had to do all the necessary paper work and yes they did learn the language. I say its time to put the HAMMER DOWN NOW.

[panhead]

These immigrants have been here for decades doing work white people won't do they are very hard workers they do serve the country well in many ways, putting produce on our shelfs, finishing concrete in 105 degree hot sun, ect. BUT they are blowing it big time, they are way out of line and its about damn time we secure the boardars and make them get in line with the proper paper work. My parents came from Germany via canada and had to do all the necessary paper work and yes they did learn the language. I say its time to put the HAMMER DOWN NOW.

There is pros and cons to everything.....but this has gotten ridiculous last thing we need is more welfare recipients clogging the system.

[Soliel]

I find it offensive when you say "white" people won't do this work...first of all, there are plenty of whites who will. I live in Southern California....and my gardener is white. The guy who installed my shed was white...this is just not true.

It's not that they won't do the jobs...they did before the huge influx of Latinos for decades. It's that they won't do them for slave wages. Big difference. And I dont' blame them...I am for the worker and if you support unmitigated immigration you are screwing workers.

Further...alot of non-whites would not do the jobs...it has to do more with class and where you are in life...more than race. Really, that is so offensive to all the hard working whites out there.

[bagzz]

I find it offensive when you say "white" people won't do this work...first of all, there are plenty of whites who will. I live in Southern California....and my gardener is white. The guy who installed my shed was white...this is just not true.

It's not that they won't do the jobs...they did before the huge influx of Latinos for decades. It's that they won't do them for slave wages. Big difference. And I dont' blame them...I am for the worker and if you support unmitigated immigration you are screwing workers.

Further...alot of non-whites would not do the jobs...it has to do more with class and where you are in life...more than race. Really, that is so offensive to all the hard working whites out there.

Racism is racism...... Don't let the multi-cultural/diversity/tolerant/progressive crowd define what racism is, the only allowable racism they allow is against whites. They are tolerant of every type of speech... as long as they agree with it! The only "multi" in multi-cultural that is good is that what is not tradditional American culture. Diversity is defined as diverse cultures (not Americana though) and progressive is limited to "progress" as defined by the Marxists. To say that whites will not do certain jobs is a blatantly racist statement against whites.. and against hispanics! But it's allowed in today's political climate irrregardless. If the statement were to say, "whites are too good to do those jobs" it would ultimately be the same message. How is one statement racist and the other not? Don't be afraid to speak the truth. Illegal aliens are here ILLEGALLY! It is a slap in the face to every immigrant that entered th country leagally to even consider anything other than prompt deportation!

[niss0001]

Solie I'm sorry if white offened you, I did not mean it that way. I am just a bad speller and did'nt feel like looking up caucasian but you forced me to. I am white however and hard working too. I drove a readymix truck delivering concrete in central cailf for 10 years and worked with lots of immigrants there are'nt many white guys out there, and contrary these workers are making a pretty good wadge.

[BEEFCAKE]

Solie I'm sorry if white offened you, I did not mean it that way. I am just a bad speller and did'nt feel like looking up caucasian but you forced me to. I am white however and hard working too. I drove a readymix truck delivering concrete in central cailf for 10 years and worked with lots of immigrants there are'nt many white guys out there, and contrary these workers are making a pretty good wadge.


I don't think anyone is offended because you used the word white to describe people, more or less you generalization of white people not wanting to work such jobs. Maybe you meant to say "many Americans don't want to work those jobs":confused:

[panhead]

Racism is racism...... Don't let the multi-cultural/diversity/tolerant/progressive crowd define what racism is, the only allowable racism they allow is against whites. They are tolerant of every type of speech... as long as they agree with it! The only "multi" in multi-cultural that is good is that what is not tradditional American culture. Diversity is defined as diverse cultures (not Americana though) and progressive is limited to "progress" as defined by the Marxists. To say that whites will not do certain jobs is a blatantly racist statement against whites.. and against hispanics! But it's allowed in today's political climate irrregardless. If the statement were to say, "whites are too good to do those jobs" it would ultimately be the same message. How is one statement racist and the other not? Don't be afraid to speak the truth. Illegal aliens are here ILLEGALLY! It is a slap in the face to every immigrant that entered th country leagally to even consider anything other than prompt deportation!

Funny how when the media uses the term racist it always seems reserved
for caucasions......too bad we can't be proud of our heritage also.