Have You Seen The New Look? [Archive] - Investor's Iraq Forum - Iraq Dinar Forum, Iraq Investments, Iraq Stock Exchange, Iraq Bank, Iraq News, Iraqi Dinar

Lux

10-17-2006, 01:57 PM

Investor's Iraq Forum (http://www.investorsiraq.com)

We are reformatting our main page, but we would like to see what you think about it as we "tweak it".

Before you get any concerns, the "old look" will always be available just in case you prefer it. You will just need to bookmark it when we make the change.

Traditional View (http://www.investorsiraq.com/traditional_index.php)

We are trying to make the new main page as informative and dynamic as possible. This will take time and input from our members.

As you can see, you will have a snapshot of the latest threads:
Latest Money Talk (dinar, banks accounts, etc)
Stock Discussion (ISX forums)
Latest News
Latest Speculation
Current PollWe will be creating a section specifically designed for your ideas and discussion.

As you also know, we had to upgrade our server and memory requirements. This too has increased the operational costs of running this site. We've added Google Ads to help defer these added costs. We felt that they are the least intrusive while also providing links that would most interest our members.

Please vote and post your respectful opinions: good, bad, or indifferent.

:wave:

dinaros

10-17-2006, 02:10 PM

I like it. http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/23/23_5_111.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZNxdm801YYUS)
Like anything new, will take awhile to get used to.

Mr.Dinar$

10-17-2006, 02:45 PM

Change is good and I like this one.

WebGuy75903

10-17-2006, 03:10 PM

If you're going with a new look, I have some constructive criticism, based upon my experiences in web development and design.

1. Reduce the header stuff significantly. I operate at a resolution larger than most (1152 x 864), and even at that resolution, I have to scroll down to get anything of any value from the site. You want to design to a minimum of 800x600 pixel resolution, and you want *some* information to be shown immediately, without any scrolling. Ideally, you want a header to take up only 1/3 of your screen size (so, 200 pixels). And that's a maximum. Less is always better.

1A: The "What is Investor's Iraq?" section - You should shorten that up considerably. A one line item link: What is Investor's Iraq? Click to Learn More..., and leave it at that. If this page is meant to be a jumping point, make it a true jumping point. Those of us who know full well what IIF is have no need to read what IIF is, each and every visit.

2. Important Links - I see what you're after here, but let's understand one thing: Once you know the links, they aren't important anymore, yes? I'd move them to much lower on the page. Yes they are important, but unless you can say, without any hesitation, that 90% of your users are going to use those links 90% of the time, it doesn't belong that high up on the page.

3. I'm having a hard time trying to see where I need to look for posts. You have posts spread out across the page, in various categories. It lacks structure - There are posts on the left panel, on the right panel, and in the middle - There appears to be no rhyme or reason for their placement. Try to form a structure - A purpose. Why did you choose to put "Latest Money Talk" under the User CP module? You have to answer these questions, and ask even more, if you're going to have a redesign that makes sense, and has a natural flow to it.

4. The "Search Forums" feature needs to be up that the top - Not down at the bottom. If someone wants to come to IIF and do a simple search, you don't want to make them scroll all the way to the bottom of the page to do so.

All my other comments are nit-picky, and not really critical to your new layout, so I'll refrain. I really did not mean the above to be negative - They are a few things I have learned over the years, and if you want your new design to really be a step up, then please think very carefully on the points I've laid out.

Lux

10-17-2006, 04:24 PM

So far it looks like people like this.

WebGuy - great observations as usual! ;)

Don't worry about critiquing it. We basically threw this together in a very short period of time (literally a few hours) and thought is was best for members like yourself to tell us what you would like to see. No emotions are tied to the draft on our end. :p

Here are some responses to your points (same numbers):

1. Totally agree. We will be sprucing and reducing the top. Also adding tabs for better navigation arround the site.

1A. That's the guest view. We will be adding a blog there to add dynamic content and to get our members out in the "front and center".

2. Yes, these links are more for reference and need to be moved down.

3. I will working with Dan to create flow. We essentially filled out the colums but organization is key.

4. There are 2 search bars at the top - one in the header, the other in the menu bar. The one at the bottom was simply additional, but will be removed as the center becomes more verticle.

Look for these changes very soon.

:wave:

WebGuy75903

10-18-2006, 09:12 AM

I would only follow-up what I said before with this one simple statement:

If you can't answer the "Why" question effectively, on every choice you make, then you haven't made a good choice.

For example, if you choose to place something in the left column, you need to ask yourself, "Why?", and then answer it. If your answer is something like, "Well, the design doesn't allow for it to go anywhere else" - Then you have a poor design, and you need to strip it back to the basics, and see where you went wrong.

Your answers to the "Why?" question must be clear, and make complete sense. You need to instead answer a "Why?" question with something like, "This is a secondary function, and therefore, does not need to be prominent on the page. It needs to be over here, grouped with the other secondary functions of the site". That is a good answer to the "Why?" question.

And yes, you need to ask yourself "Why?" on EVERYTHING. Why have you chosen this color scheme? Why are you making the space between the buttons 10 pixels? Why have you chosen to label that link "Members List" instead of "Members"? Every nook and cranny needs to have this single question applied to it, and you need to provide that answer.

Don't skimp on this either. Don't just say, "Okay, there are only three things I can't answer the 'Why?' to with anything that even remotely makes sense, but ya know what... Everything else is good, so let's just move ahead". That will hurt you in the long run.

I work on a team of User Experience professionals - That's all we do when we create new sites. We sit around a conference room, and ask "Why?" all the time. We redesign our sites, or eliminate components that aren't important, and don't even fit into the "Why?" model. Now don't get me wrong - Being in a large corporation, just because we have the right answers, doesn't mean we always get our way. A lot of our products have launched against our recommendations, but in your case, you do have the final say. I hope you take advantage of this freedom that you have.

Good luck!!

Lux

10-18-2006, 09:51 AM

Thanks WebGuy!

I was just about to update that we have followed through on all your recommendations. Still a couple of tweaks left.

I must say that we are on the same wavelength with your philosophy:

WHY? WHY? WHY?

You commentary truly is a great contribution for all of us to apply in many of our endeavors. This can be applied to a more general philosophy about "change" in itself and the needs and benefits of it. Always ask the question "Why?" because the answers change from day to week to month to year.

While I have a very strong sense of the visual aspects to layout and flow, the internet (and all the functionality it provides) is a completely new experience to us.

We always put the members first, and while not all things can be done for all members, this place had evolved through member participation like yours.

There are some bigger pictures to our projects and we are trying to blend both "current need" and "forward thinking" into our process. Sometimes the "why" won't be as evident as others, but in the long run, I think we will have gone beyond the needs and expectations of members. If and when we don't, we surely do want to know. Of course, we won't know that without commentary and critique like yours.

By week's end, we should have a more defined look and, as always, we will need a good ole fashion "granny pickin". I know you are up to the task.

:wave:

LongShot

10-18-2006, 10:15 AM

Great improvement IMHO ;) Not that the other was bad. :)

Kurt3628

10-18-2006, 10:49 AM

cHANGE IS BAD. SORRY BUT I AM OLD AND SET IN MY WAYS

RET

10-18-2006, 10:51 AM

RET - will not comment. :no:

Lux knows how I feel about change.:lmao:

Dinar_OS

10-18-2006, 12:25 PM

I'm lost.
Know the younger crowd will like this change, dough the older crowd will.
I'm in the latter group.
And mama told me if I had nothing good to say, don't say anything.

So, where did my Dong Yuan Ruble go?

Fisherman

10-18-2006, 02:07 PM

Being in the web design and marketing business myself, I would like to second what WebGuy said and add one more thing.

There is still a little bug in the forum script. When I am looking at the list of threads and click on the "go to the newest post in the thread" icon to the left of the thread title, it just goes to the first post in the thread and not the first unread post like it should. It's a good feature. It's a little aggrivating when there are several pages in the thread and I have to re-read all of the posts in the thread.

PennStateMtnMan

10-18-2006, 05:52 PM

I don't like the third column.

Darthnip

10-18-2006, 08:52 PM

it's too busy! the main page needs to feel rooted, i got scared and had to leave! it felt like running acrossed 14 lanes of busy highway, thank goodness i found the traditional view.

Laurali

10-18-2006, 09:32 PM

Refreshing and it stands out from some other forums now, instead of everyone having the same format with different colors. I get bored with the same thing. Also, I think the center column should be a little wider.

misty

10-18-2006, 09:40 PM

cHANGE IS BAD. SORRY BUT I AM OLD AND SET IN MY WAYS

I agree, I do not like it either. It looks to much like another forum on the net which I hate because I cannot find my way around and my screen is not big enough. Well you get the drift. If it is not broken, why fix it. It was great as it was before.:)

misty

10-18-2006, 09:42 PM

it's too busy! the main page needs to feel rooted, i got scared and had to leave! it felt like running acrossed 14 lanes of busy highway, thank goodness i found the traditional view.

Really!!!!!??? Where? Can you please direct me to it. Thanks so much.

Darthnip

10-18-2006, 10:48 PM

http://www.investorsiraq.com/traditional_index.php

Lux

10-18-2006, 10:59 PM

For those who like it:

We will be working to make this main page and the many more pages we plan to add as informative as we can. You can expect to see additional reference pages with much more content. Much of the reference information that is found in the depths of our forums can now be better archived in easy to read pages.

Over the past two plus years, so much effort has been made to post great information, yet all we have to show for it is a search function that is difficult for many of our members to use.

New members will have more access to information to help reduce the cycle of the "same old questions". With a little effort and ingenuity, Investors Iraq will become as much as a reference tool as it is a communication tool.

We've added a couple of goodwill modules directed at helping our those who serve in the military and their families as well as the children in Iraq.

Thanks for the encouraging posts. We look forward to making IIF even better in the weeks and months to come.

:wave:

For those who do not like it: nothing has changed: IIF Traditional View (http://www.investorsiraq.com/traditional_index.php)

misty

10-18-2006, 11:07 PM

http://www.investorsiraq.com/traditional_index.php

Thank you!!

Lady D

10-18-2006, 11:48 PM

Investor's Iraq Forum (beta) (http://www.investorsiraq.com/cmps_index.php)

We are reformatting our main page, but we would like to see what you think about it as we "tweak it".

Before you get any concerns, the "old look" will always be available just in case you prefer it. You will just need to bookmark it when we make the change.

Investor's Iraq Forum (http://www.investorsiraq.com/)

We are trying to make the new main page as informative and dynamic as possible. This will take time and input from our members.

As you can see, you will have a snapshot of the latest threads:
Latest Money Talk (dinar, banks accounts, etc)
Stock Discussion (ISX forums)
Latest News
Latest Speculation
Current PollWe will be creating a section specifically designed for your ideas and discussion.

As you also know, we had to upgrade our server and memory requirements. This too has increased the operational costs of running this site. We've added Google Ads to help defer these added costs. We felt that they are the least intrusive while also providing links that would most interest our members.

Please vote and post your respectful opinions: good, bad, or indifferent.

:wave:

I clicked on the one that said Beta and it came up not known. Then I clicked on the other and it showed a lot of narrower columns, with a poll down the side for how old are you in IIf years.

If "that" is the Beta I don't like it. I like the full page width of the current post. It makes for easier reading.
Lady D

WebGuy75903

10-19-2006, 12:17 PM

Discovered another issue... Kinda a biggie. How are users supposed to jump into a particular sub-forum? Say a user wants to go to the Jokes sub-forum in the Lounge area - How would a user go there? The only methods that I've been able to use to get to such an area are:

1) Just click on any ol' post's home forum from the home page, and then use the "Forum Jump" drop-down list at the bottom to go to where I want to go. Or...

2) Just wait until someone posts in the desired forum, and then click on that post's forum to view other threads.

I hope I'm making sense. It's been an extremely long week...

Lux

10-19-2006, 12:21 PM

WebGuy75903

10-19-2006, 12:33 PM

I'm setting up a Navigation module.

I will make it active and keep adding all the forums.

The question is where does it fit best - anywhere except the top. ;)

Actually, being that it is a navigation piece, it belongs very near where the other main navigation pieces are. So if you're going to keep the items like User CP, FAQ, Members List, etc., all at the top, then you need a forum jump feature to be near that as well.

Goes back to structure, and having things make sense. If you move things elsewhere to accommodate whatever you're trying to accommodate, you could end up confusing users. Always keep navigation elements close to each other. They don't have to be right ON TOP of each other, but put it somewhere close to the existing navigation.

Of course, all bets are off if you're moving that top navigation to somewhere else. But if you're keeping it pretty close to where it is now, then.... :drunk:

And, one additional note: If you're sticking with a drop-down method of forum-jumping, try to figure out a way to shorten that list of items. Perhaps something dynamic might work here. Have two drop-down lists. First drop-down list has the major top-level forums that a user can jump to, and then a secondary (and optional) drop-down list that is dynamic that repopulates itself based on the value of the first one, that allows a user to jump to a specific sub-forum if they desire. Bear in mind, this type of functionality has implications with Accessibility (coding sites to conform with the Americans with Disabilities Act, and the European equivelant, which I can't recall what it's called at this moment). That's a choice that is entirely up to you, though. If your site already doesn't conform to ADA, then you might want to go ahead and do this, but provide an alternative way for users with disabilities to still navigate to other forums.

Just my 30.73IQD worth...

Lux

10-19-2006, 12:42 PM

Actually, being that it is a navigation piece, it belongs very near where the other main navigation pieces are. So if you're going to keep the items like User CP, FAQ, Members List, etc., all at the top, then you need a forum jump feature to be near that as well.

Goes back to structure, and having things make sense. If you move things elsewhere to accommodate whatever you're trying to accommodate, you could end up confusing users. Always keep navigation elements close to each other. They don't have to be right ON TOP of each other, but put it somewhere close to the existing navigation.

Of course, all bets are off if you're moving that top navigation to somewhere else. But if you're keeping it pretty close to where it is now, then.... :drunk:

And, one additional note: If you're sticking with a drop-down method of forum-jumping, try to figure out a way to shorten that list of items. Perhaps something dynamic might work here. Have two drop-down lists. First drop-down list has the major top-level forums that a user can jump to, and then a secondary (and optional) drop-down list that is dynamic that repopulates itself based on the value of the first one, that allows a user to jump to a specific sub-forum if they desire. Bear in mind, this type of functionality has implications with Accessibility (coding sites to conform with the Americans with Disabilities Act, and the European equivelant, which I can't recall what it's called at this moment). That's a choice that is entirely up to you, though. If your site already doesn't conform to ADA, then you might want to go ahead and do this, but provide an alternative way for users with disabilities to still navigate to other forums.

Just my 30.73IQD worth...

Yes, it's on the left. The middle might be best so it's equidistant from the top and bottom.

Good idea about dual jumps too. Makes navigation a breeze.

Do you have any good links to ADA functionality on websites. If not I will Google it.

Just my 30.73IQD worth...
PRE REVAL IT TAKE IT! ;)

WebGuy75903

10-19-2006, 01:02 PM

Yes, it's on the left. The middle might be best so it's equidistant from the top and bottom.

Good idea about dual jumps too. Makes navigation a breeze.

Do you have any good links to ADA functionality on websites. If not I will Google it.

Just my 30.73IQD worth...
PRE REVAL IT TAKE IT! ;)

Unfortunately, accessibility (ADA stuff) is really hard to nail down, and is extremely subjective - i.e., You implement only the items that pertain to your unique situation. However, a good starting point would be: WAI Guidelines and Techniques (http://www.w3.org/WAI/guid-tech.html). Look at the WCAG first. The rest aren't as important. You might want to take a look at the "Accessibility Information for Specific Technologies", and see if there's anything on there regarding PHP (I honestly don't know).

As you go through the exercise of making your sites ADA-Compliant, be prepared for a headache. Lines are blurred, and hard to really see in any real contrast of black and white. As I said before, a lot of it is subjective, so prepare yourself when you embark upon your search for more information that you're going to find conflicting stances on various pieces. Essentially, we've gotten to a point where I work that we simply just run our sites through a screen reader (JAWS 7.0), and if we can navigate the site, perform all the functions of said site, and it reads each page in a logical order, we call it a day. But you're in for quite a ride if you go down this road. We've been trying to nail down accessibility for over a year now, and we think we're starting to get a handle on everything.

So take it for what it's worth... And yes, the 30.73IQD is PRE-REVAL. I hope that changes relatively soon, but time will tell. :wave:

sincityplayah

10-19-2006, 01:33 PM

nice job with the layout

ToBeRich

10-19-2006, 04:48 PM

I like the page layout overall though the center could be a little wider. The only other thing I didn't really care for is the repetitivnous of the post in each section. Like today, 10/19, Marshall Plan at top of page, 1st section and second section, 20 billion dinars spent in 1st and third section, I heard from Warka in 2 sections, CBI down in two sections. You could show more new post by not being so repetitive. Other than that, very nice.:)

Lux

10-19-2006, 05:06 PM

RET

10-19-2006, 05:29 PM

All I can say is when I log on my ...

http://sophia.smith.edu/~tstolz/images/label/brainhurts.jpg

It's gonna take ole RETie a while in getting used to this. Lux probably made the 'alternate' option for me!:lmao:

Lux

10-19-2006, 07:25 PM

Lux probably made the 'alternate' option for me!:lmao:

You and 33 others so far.

If you want, you simply need to bookmark the Traditional View (or make a shortcut).

You can also collapse any module you don't want to see (top right corners).

Many modules will be dynamic and change often so don't keep them closed all the time.

:wave:

ToBeRich

10-19-2006, 09:49 PM

Sportslux, Thanks. Much better without the redundancy. If only Warka reacted that fast!:lmao:

RET

10-19-2006, 10:19 PM

You and 33 others so far.

If you want, you simply need to bookmark the Traditional View (or make a shortcut).

You can also collapse any module you don't want to see (top right corners).

Many modules will be dynamic and change often so don't keep them closed all the time.

:wave:

Nahhh, I'll go with the new look and just complain to you about it. OKAY?:wave: :lmao:

Dinar_OS

10-20-2006, 07:59 AM

Traditional View: Thank you, I felt a bit lost the last few days. Back in my confront zone again. Willing to learn new system but will take time to get the feel of it.

tiare

10-20-2006, 08:30 AM

:) Thanks for the "New Look" Sportslux,
I like it! Great Reading!!

tiare

Lux

10-20-2006, 11:18 AM

Nahhh, I'll go with the new look and just complain to you about it. OKAY?:wave: :lmao:

Please send complaints to the Complaint Dept (http://www.investorsiraq.com/private.php?do=newpm&u=122)

:huge:

Lux

10-20-2006, 11:29 AM

:) Thanks for the "New Look" Sportslux,
I like it! Great Reading!!

tiare

Glad you liked it.

It's only the beginning!

:wave:

RET

10-20-2006, 12:38 PM

Please send complaints to the Complaint Dept (http://www.investorsiraq.com/private.php?do=newpm&u=122)

:huge:

LOL ... you are baddddddddddddd.

I figured you'd post something like this:

Pimpmaximus

10-20-2006, 01:27 PM

Good stuff. I like seeing the things I look at most right off the bat. Excellent job mods and administrators!

WebGuy75903

10-20-2006, 01:46 PM

Hey Lux, the side navigation menu is getting awfully long. Maybe you could add in a menu tree type of thing. Have all the top-level links (forums) be visible right off the bat, and have a little "plus" icon next to it. Allow people to expand one node at a time, and see all the sub-forums beneath it. This will allow two things:

1. Allow you to keep the navigation clean and short as a default. And...
2. Allow you to space out your links a bit more (they look uber-crowded right now).

If you're using CSS and want to try something, put a style on that particular area with the following: line-height:1.5em (play around with the number a bit).

Hope that helps...