Concern about bank accounts...

[Jeffrey]

Ok folks, I have started second guessing myself and have come up with these questions....any input appreciated.

Scenario is that bank acct is opened with Warka. 2 accts, both dollar and Dinar with the majority being in Dinar. As we all know, getting to this point in the game has taken a bit of time. There are delays in emails, language barriers, no access to you account online as of yet, etc. But, even with all of the delays the acct is open an the Dinars are sitting there.

Here's where it gets exciting or terrible, one of the two...

The Dinar opens on the world market and it appreciates to a level that I want to trade it in for... YIPPIE.........but how the heck am I going to do it??? Send and email to Miss Rannda...wait a week for a reply??? In that amount of time things can change, heck things on the currency market can change by the second.

I do believe that having your Dinar in a bank acct is the best way to go....but those of us who would be holding it there for Dinar appreciation (as opposed to using it for ISX) have to know what actions we need to take to exchange the Dinar back to Dollar and get it wired back to our US bank when the time comes.

Any ideas, suggestions???? :confused:

[fsm75]

Ok folks, I have started second guessing myself and have come up with these questions....any input appreciated.

Scenario is that bank acct is opened with Warka. 2 accts, both dollar and Dinar with the majority being in Dinar. As we all know, getting to this point in the game has taken a bit of time. There are delays in emails, language barriers, no access to you account online as of yet, etc. But, even with all of the delays the acct is open an the Dinars are sitting there.

Here's where it gets exciting or terrible, one of the two...

The Dinar opens on the world market and it appreciates to a level that I want to trade it in for... YIPPIE.........but how the heck am I going to do it??? Send and email to Miss Rannda...wait a week for a reply??? In that amount of time things can change, heck things on the currency market can change by the second.

I do believe that having your Dinar in a bank acct is the best way to go....but those of us who would be holding it there for Dinar appreciation (as opposed to using it for ISX) have to know what actions we need to take to exchange the Dinar back to Dollar and get it wired back to our US bank when the time comes.

Any ideas, suggestions???? :confused:
My sentiments exactly.

[Psycho for Dinar]

One of the reasons why I've reluctantly held back!

[Monty]

Hey Jeffrey,

That was first clarification I requested. The answer I received is YES. It can be done. We need to write another authorization letter to do that (i.e. converting Dinar to Dollar and wire transfer back to US banks here). I am satisfied that part. I do see a lot of advantages

1. Making 22% or 15% more very upfront (buying 1 mil for $684 versus $875 or $800)
2. Not to worry about change of currency of any sort
3. Not to worry whether Dinars we received are real or fake
4. Not to worry about closing large denomination
5. Not to worry about finding a place store them
6. Able to invest in ISX like a pro on very first day
7. Gaining some interest (even though it might be smaller)

Ok these are pluses. Minuses are

1. Nobody knows how stable this bank is.
2. We have absolutely no control at present other than sending emails.
3. Each transaction may take few days (may be we are spoiled with internet banking)
4. Whole value of bank is US $17 mill. (2.5 billion shares x 10 (value of share)/1460). Not very difficult to manipulate particularly foreign banks are allowed to buy shares.
5. Assuming value of Dinar goes 100 to 1 US dollar, are they in position to send back millions of US dollars to US holders?
6. One common thing happens in any developing countries is manipulation of banking system by their govt for whatever reason.

Even though, I was very exited, I am holding until I get few other clarifications.

Let us share all of our views, negative and positive.

Monty :happy64:

Disclaimer: Neither recommending nor against this investment. It is risky at some level like any other investments. Use your judgment.

[Jeffrey]

Thanks for laying it out like that Monty. It is clear that you and I are thinking along the same lines. Initially I was ALL FOR putting the majority of what I intended to invest into the bank account route and holding less of the currency in my hand...but I have had a huge turnaround in my thinking on this....

Actually it was my mother who asked me "in what other circumstance would you wire hundreds/thousands of dollars to a foriegn bank that you cant even get ahold of on the phone?"...and my answer was NEVER. Maybe if the lines of communication were a little more open I would, but just cant bring myself to do it right now.

So I am going to hold the notes myself...because:
1) I do not believe that they will change notes, making these worthless. It would be very foolish in my opinion for a country that is desperately needing foreign investors to devalue these notes. Because right now that is what we are doing. US dollars are being invested in order for us to hold Dinar. And if they did devalue these notes, I don't think anyone would ever "buy" any new ones for fear of them doing it again.
2) I do believe that this currency will be traded on the international markets at some point.
3) When it does go on the currency market, then I will just pay the fees to convert it to US Dollar. This may never materialize.....but hey, over the years, I have paid alot more for alot less. If any of you have ever been to Vegas, you know what I mean.

So thats my strategy and I am sticking too it (for now) :shhh:

[BRYAN]

When I sent a question to Warka@hot mail to inquire about access to this account of mine this is the response to my question !
Question : How can I view my account balances over the internet and to verify that the funds have arrived into the account ???


Thank you for your e-mail dated July 28 ,2004 .
The only access to your account is through e-mail ( through me ) .
Best regards .

R

As of now I will not send any monies until I have I contact the US state dept and inquire about this bank and the procuderes > I will get to the truth everone can count on that > I will be looking as deep as I can , Even if i have to hire a translator and make phone conferences to talk in arabic as a unbiased mediator and or see if this is real and not some type of money scam . If R is for real and this is the procuderes are the way she said , than I'll move forward . I'ts better to get th information confirmed from a third party that you can trust 100% for the information that is recieved is true and correct . My reason for caution now is that I really don't know anyone here personally and have never conducted any type of business with this country or from any refferences that were givin to me from this site . To be cautious is smart in this case , I know I work real hard for the money I earn . To send it off to someone that can only corrispond via e-mail is an eyelifting concern . What if she is hurt, sick , or e-mail dosen't work something along those lines . How would you get to the funds to trade or transfer . From this letter I have recieved I wonder how much control do I have on this account .

[minigirl]

Let us know if you find out anything Bryan. I too would feel more comfortable with a bank that I could access info via phone, internet, automated system (although I don't understand the language. lol) but still something besides just hotmail.

[BRYAN]

Hi Marilyn , Did you recieve your deposit confirmation yet ??? If so does it look official ???From the affliated bank or Warka ?? Or just a hotmail response?? I was told by R That we could only deal thu her , is that unusal ??? DO we have any control over transactions with Warka except thru e-mail with R ? What if she leaves or gets sick and we wanted to trade ??? What then ??? I feel these are valid concerns . Since you are the only one ,that I know of ,from this forum that has sent money from the US to the Warka affilated bank, please keep us informed as best as you can to let all of us know the final outcome . :huge:

[Jerry]

All of your reasons are extreemly valid. I do not know exactly how much due diligence was on Waraka bank. I tried looking but it didnt meet my criteria. For me it takes more than a phone call to justify doing business with a bank.

When I started the thread on "The Real Deal About Bank Accounts" I did tons of research, infact back on Portal Iraq I suggested that a Iraqi bank account would prove useful against demonitization of the Iraqi Dinar. I only wrote this after I came to the followig conclusions.

I needed a bank that could accept wires in USD or Iraqi Dinar. I needed a bank that I know is going to be purchased or is already purchased by a reliable foreign bank. I needed bank who spoke english. I needed a bank that I could start an account with, without having to be there in person (mind you there are not many banks that allow you to do this esp. in a foregin country).
I needed a bank that would have access to the ISX as a broker. I needed a bank with some sort of history and know what they were doing before the war. I needed to know what measures they were taking to bring their bank up to modren banking standerds. I needed to know that the Headquarters of that bank was in a secure area where it was least likely to be blown up. (Credit Bank Of Iraq is located in the green zone).

I needed to know that even though not imediately... but relatively soon I would be able to access my account online , even if I had to deal with the current e-mail pain in the butt thing.

Credit bank of Iraq meet all that criteria.
http://www.iraqcoalition.org/economy/credit_bank.pdf

As NBK has purchased 85% of Credit Bank Of Iraq and became one of the first foregin banks to receive their licence (out of only 3 selected) and was selected by J.P. Morgan to run The Trade Bank of Iraq. NBK is also looking to expand the existing 10 branches it has.

http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=nifea&&sid=apjRLJMo.Oy4

Fortunately for me I have been dealing with NBK for the last 2 years that I have been in Kuwait. Their online service is second to none. NBK also is THE ONLY bank in Kuwait that will wire Iraqi Dinars to Iraq... (gee I wonder why)

Lastly as a conclusion Tony and I came to about the ISX... We would have to be the first in on it. The same I would imagine would go for Iraqi Bank accounts. I think that in the future Iraqi bank accounts will be much harder for you to obtrain, requiring a Residency or a Civil ID much like Kuwait.


If I end up having a problem with Credit Bank (which I doubt I will) I would simply got to the "Mother" office in Kuwait and have my bank managerhandle it. NBK is use to dealing with U.S. dollars due to The 1st Gulf War. Alomst all maijor american contracting companies use them here for payrole.

The matter of "Would they be are they in position to send back millions of US dollars to US holders?" Absolutely! Because its all electronic at this point. Now the bank you wire to where you plan to withdraw from thats another issue. You have to ask what that banks limit is for the day for withdrawels in reguards to wire transfers. Also if its over $10,000.00 prepare to set 15% for a capital gains tax, and a little extra fo whatever fees that local bank charges you for the transfer.

Jerry

[Jerry]

What you have to ask yourself is "How much do you know about the bank your going to deal with?" Most importantly "How do you feel about it?" no sense on borrowing anxiety for something you could have eaither preventd or made a more sound decision on if given more information and time.

Bryan "As of now I will not send any monies until I have I contact the US state dept and inquire about this bank and the procuderes"

As of NOW your not even supposed to have an Iraqi Bank account! Let alone Iarqi Dinar! Its not supposed to be out side the country, we all know this.

If you contact the U.S. state department they might shutdown any chances of anyone else able to get an account in Iraq forever. You might seal our fate with eliminating the chace for all of us to be first in line for the ISX when it opens, before all the big dogs run in and tap it out. We all could miss our boat!

Why not try privatly contacting Marilyn, she has good communication with Ms R.

Having an Iraqi bank account is a privlage, and one we all can lose because you have some doubts and are back peddaling.

We have come so far with all this, we are all so far ahead and to have it ruined would be an absolute shame.

Im sure that you will not have to go through Ms R forever, one day theyll have a web site you can access.

[fsm75]

What you have to ask yourself is "How much do you know about the bank your going to deal with?" Most importantly "How do you feel about it?" no sense on borrowing anxiety for something you could have eaither preventd or made a more sound decision on if given more information and time.

Bryan "As of now I will not send any monies until I have I contact the US state dept and inquire about this bank and the procuderes"

As of NOW your not even supposed to have an Iraqi Bank account! Let alone Iarqi Dinar! Its not supposed to be out side the country, we all know this.

If you contact the U.S. state department they might shutdown any chances of anyone else able to get an account in Iraq forever. You might seal our fate with eliminating the chace for all of us to be first in line for the ISX when it opens, before all the big dogs run in and tap it out. We all could miss our boat!

Why not try privatly contacting Marilyn, she has good communication with Ms R.

Having an Iraqi bank account is a privlage, and one we all can lose because you have some doubts and are back peddaling.

We have come so far with all this, we are all so far ahead and to have it ruined would be an absolute shame.

Im sure that you will not have to go through Ms R forever, one day theyll have a web site you can access.
Jerry,

My understanding is that CPA order 39 allows us to invest in Iraq as any other Iraqi citizen would. Take a look at it. It would make sense that this means bank accounts too. The reason we are not able to invest in the stock market is the infrastructure is not up to par.

[BRYAN]

What you have to ask yourself is "How much do you know about the bank your going to deal with?" Most importantly "How do you feel about it?" no sense on borrowing anxiety for something you could have eaither preventd or made a more sound decision on if given more information and time.

Bryan "As of now I will not send any monies until I have I contact the US state dept and inquire about this bank and the procuderes"

As of NOW your not even supposed to have an Iraqi Bank account! Let alone Iarqi Dinar! Its not supposed to be out side the country, we all know this.

If you contact the U.S. state department they might shutdown any chances of anyone else able to get an account in Iraq forever. You might seal our fate with eliminating the chace for all of us to be first in line for the ISX when it opens, before all the big dogs run in and tap it out. We all could miss our boat!

Why not try privatly contacting Marilyn, she has good communication with Ms R.

Having an Iraqi bank account is a privlage, and one we all can lose because you have some doubts and are back peddaling.

We have come so far with all this, we are all so far ahead and to have it ruined would be an absolute shame.

Im sure that you will not have to go through Ms R forever, one day theyll have a web site you can access.

I don't think I can do this -Having doubts or backpeddling is not what I'm doing . I just want to be sure this is supported by more FACTS than a hotmail address !!!!
Don't you ???

[BRYAN]

I've had responces from threads I posted from Marilyn . But I'll try the pm also .

[fsm75]

I don't think I can do this -Having doubts or backpeddling is not what I'm doing . I just want to be sure this is supported by more FACTS than a hotmail address !!!!
Don't you ???
Bryan:

You have legitimate concerns. The fact of the matter is that Warka Bank has been approved by the CPA, so we know there should be some level of competency. How much, who knows? What else is the state department going to be able to tell you anyway. The bottom line is that we know Warka does not have an infrastructre that meets your needs. Like you already said, maybe it is a better idea to hold off for a while and see what comes of it all. Regardless of the State Department's response, there is nothing that will change Warka's electronic communication capabilities, your foremost concern. What would the State Department say that would make you change your mind on that?

[BRYAN]

Bryan:

You have legitimate concerns. The fact of the matter is that Warka Bank has been approved by the CPA, so we know there should be some level of competency. How much, who knows? What else is the state department going to be able to tell you anyway. The bottom line is that we know Warka does not have an infrastructre that meets your needs. Like you already said, maybe it is a better idea to hold off for a while and see what comes of it all. Regardless of the State Department's response, there is nothing that will change Warka's electronic communication capabilities, your foremost concern. What would the State Department say that would make you change your mind on that?


What would the State Department say that would make you change your mind on that?[/QUOTE]
I think the state dept will refer me some where else , I understand # 39 . And Warka 's ability to do and the way they coduct , is of no concern to the state dept I'mn sure . But how safe is this , I don't know do you . And by the way what is anyone here afraid of anyway ???

[fsm75]

What would the State Department say that would make you change your mind on that?
I think the state dept will refer me some where else , I understand # 39 . And Warka 's ability to do and the way they coduct , is of no concern to the state dept I'mn sure . But how safe is this , I don't know do you . And by the way what is anyone here afraid of anyway ???[/QUOTE]
I whole-heartedly agree with your concerns. Hence my hesitation to open an account thus far. I am not afraid of you contacting the State Department. We are not doing anything that is illegal. This option to invest in "all economic sectors" of Iraq was made legal by CPA order 39. I guess I am not completely understanding what you mean by "safe". I guess it is no more safe than the gamble we are taking in this situation as a whole.

[fsm75]

Bryan:

And one point to add:

I, of all people, am definitely interested in knowing what you find out. Just throwing stuff that comes to mind out there.

[Jerry]

"Jerry,

My understanding is that CPA order 39 allows us to invest in Iraq as any other Iraqi citizen would. Take a look at it. It would make sense that this means bank accounts too. The reason we are not able to invest in the stock market is the infrastructure is not up to par"

So your saying because your american you can invest as anyother Iraqi citizen would... WRONG CPA order 39 allows you to invest to a certain extent. You cannot buy and own realestate... Iraqis can. You cannot buy any natural resource... Iraqis can. Presidential order 13303 is much more clear about this. I know CPA orders but in all of this you forgot the "WHEN" part. As it sits now... Not Yet is the answer. And we are doing so even when its the "NoT YeT" time frame. This enables to get in on the markets sooner ect. I have friends in IRAQ and they there in person cant even get an Iraqi Bank account.
"The reason we are not able to invest in the stock market is the infrastructure is not up to par."

OK how so? They are trading... we see it just like every one else 3 times a week hell heres the article
http://abcnews.go.com/wire/Business/ap20040718_1241.html

If we have a bank account and money in that bank we should be able to give the bank a written order to buy our shares (according to article 39 anyway) How are they trading... Thats how they are trading through the bank with cold hard cash. Why cant we (even though we are American and CPA #39 says so?!) Because they are driving up the prices so that by the time we get in on it they would have and continue to make a huge profit off of us... Americans. CPA #39 only holds so much water and if no one has noticed... THE CPA IS DISOLVED. You would be subject to Iraqi law and CBI law And Private bank laws. Take a look at those. Because that the future my friend.

[Northof48]

We could all kick in $5-10 and have 1 acount to see just how smoothly it could work.

Minimize risk and share results

[jules]

I have a question....what would be the best way to proliferate iraq...perhaps warka bank... once the ship has come in. I know having the money there now will help, or eventually investing in stocks. But once the dinar value goes up and stocks increase and we all have our money transferred eventually...how can we give back. and help things grow ...perhaps donation to warka or something? :confused:

your thoughts are appreciated :)

[EyeGuy]

We could all kick in $5-10 and have 1 acount to see just how smoothly it could work.

Minimize risk and share results

That would not work.

Who do you want to be in charge of handing out the profits? I hope you say yourself? I know I want to be the one in charge of the account. :D

[Jerry]

Hey Jeffrey,

That was first clarification I requested. The answer I received is YES. It can be done. We need to write another authorization letter to do that (i.e. converting Dinar to Dollar and wire transfer back to US banks here). I am satisfied that part. I do see a lot of advantages

1. Making 22% or 15% more very upfront (buying 1 mil for $684 versus $875 or $800)
2. Not to worry about change of currency of any sort
3. Not to worry whether Dinars we received are real or fake
4. Not to worry about closing large denomination
5. Not to worry about finding a place store them
6. Able to invest in ISX like a pro on very first day
7. Gaining some interest (even though it might be smaller)

Ok these are pluses. Minuses are

1. Nobody knows how stable this bank is.
2. We have absolutely no control at present other than sending emails.
3. Each transaction may take few days (may be we are spoiled with internet banking)
4. Whole value of bank is US $17 mill. (2.5 billion shares x 10 (value of share)/1460). Not very difficult to manipulate particularly foreign banks are allowed to buy shares.
5. Assuming value of Dinar goes 100 to 1 US dollar, are they in position to send back millions of US dollars to US holders?
6. One common thing happens in any developing countries is manipulation of banking system by their govt for whatever reason.

Even though, I was very exited, I am holding until I get few other clarifications.

Let us share all of our views, negative and positive.

Monty :happy64:

Disclaimer: Neither recommending nor against this investment. It is risky at some level like any other investments. Use your judgment.

I'm just giving my opinion on the cons of this.
1. I have seen the banks financial statements and can vouch for them being there both before and after the war. Mr. Bunia comes form one of the wealthiest families in Iraq who own a great deal of industry. He is also chairman of the Bankers Association of Iraq. Approved by the CPA on thier website and they have had numerous articles in the news written about them.

2. Technology is still behind, ATM machines have yet to be there however they ARE now offering VISAS. That to me is more control than e-mails.

3.Even with NBK here in Kuwait transactions STILL take a few days to reach my credit union in the states. That may never change.

4.Mr. Bunia is rasing the banks capital by other means in the very near future. He wants to go it alone and not sell out such as Credit Bank did. I dont think he (or his family) would allow any manipulation that would cause him to loose the bank.

5.They are infact in a position to wire back millions of dollars to the U.S. (via Jordan currently) due to the fact that it is all electronic. The conversion would be made electronicly there at the bank. Instead of Dinars in this case you would buy Dollars.

6. Given the "Peso Crisis" yes this statement is true. However in ALL instances which this occured the Central Banks of those countries did not have a world governing body breathing down thier necks.