The Najaf offensive is underway

[RogerL]

Looks like the final assault on al-Sadr's militia has finally begun with the Iraqi troops in the lead. It seems the one day delay was spent holding war games to help train the Iraqis to do the heavy lifting. Let's all hope all of our troops and the Iraqi troops stay safe.

US Launches Najaf Offensive - Fox News (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,128752,00.html)

US Launches Najaf Offensive - CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/08/12/iraq.main/index.html)

[BRYAN]

The new Iraqi goverement has bent over to apease these fighters -- if they want to die fighting than to live the rest of there lives tring to better themselves than so be it . I feel sorry that the rebels think that the US military are whimps and that this will be like russia and afgan war. I think that they will elimate most of the resistance and maintain some level of cease fire. But what about the children that have been convinced that the new goverment is not good for Iraq ? be it from killing their loved one ( brother , father , suiside bomber friend )They still may find the need to continue carring the torch of resistance . Can't the people understand that being a free society is not so bad !!! Sure there is corruption and crime as we speak going on in our own country - But they will be caught eventually (example : ENRON ) freedom is not free , it comes at a high cost - lose of life so freedom can live .
I remember a saying my grandfather told me when I was a young boy .( he was a WW 2 spy ) He had said that " Evil men and ideals will thrive only when good and honest people do nothing , but watch it happen !! He said that everything he went thru was worth it , all the trials and trauma to see me , smiling and happy (poor but happy ) , basking in the glory and freedom of the UNITED STATES. To have generations children growing up with out war was his ultimate dream for all. That is a big order to fill . I don't like to see people being killed for any reason , but GOD does allow these things to happen ???

[Psycho for Dinar]

It is absolutely mandatory that we have Iraq military take the lead role in this action. Sadr is now held up in a Mosque which is considered by the Islamic faith the same as the Vatican is to Christians. Apparently, this is the Mosque of the cousin of Mohammad, one of the most sacred sites in Iraq. For the U.S. to take the lead, or to even enter the Mosque would be a direct violation of the Qur'an. This is exactly what Sadr wants, this type of action would enrage the entire middle east. Here is the passage from the Qur'an under Mosque/ disbelievers should not visit or or take care of:

009.017
YUSUFALI: It is not for such as join gods with Allah, to visit or maintain the mosques of Allah while they witness against their own souls to infidelity. The works of such bear no fruit: In Fire shall they dwell.
PICKTHAL: It is not for the idolaters to tend Allah's sanctuaries, bearing witness against themselves of disbelief. As for such, their works are vain and in the Fire they will abide.
SHAKIR: The idolaters have no right to visit the mosques of Allah while bearing witness to unbelief against themselves, these it is whose doings are null, and in the fire shall they abide.

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/quranindex.html

Guess it wasn't a cousin like I heard on Fox, it was his son-in-law.
http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/?id=10942

[RogerL]

It is absolutely mandatory that we have Iraq military take the lead role in this action. Sadr is now held up in a Mosque which is considered by the Islamic faith the same as the Vatican is to Christians. Apparently, this is the Mosque of the cousin of Mohammad, one of the most sacred sites in Iraq. For the U.S. to take the lead, or to even enter the Mosque would be a direct violation of the Qur'an. This is exactly what Sadr wants, this type of action would enrage the entire middle east.Unfortunately, I think you're correct. For US troops to even enter the mosque, regardless of whether they have permission of the governor, would inflame the population, including those who support us. That is exactly the reason why the cowardly militias hide out inside mosques and use them as ammo dumps. Even though they are violating their own faith, it doesn't seem to matter to Muslims throughout the Middle East, who turn a blind eye to any Muslim atrocities.

Of course, that's exactly what the delay in the attack was for. US troops spent Wednesday conducting war games with Iraqi troops, teaching them how to take out the militia inside the mosque. While one day of training isn't encouraging, we have to hope it's enough to carry the day.

Since the Iraqis are under the command of the interim government, any attack on the mosque must have PM Allawi's permission. Let's see if he has the courage to give the go ahead.

[the_hulk]

The latest news is that Al-Sadr has been wounded in fighting.

[minigirl]

The latest news is that Al-Sadr has been wounded in fighting.

Update as of 15 minutes ago
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=5966368

[Josie303]

Truce Negotiated
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040813/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq&cid=540&ncid=716

[Blake]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/08/14/iraq.main/index.html

Al-Sadr Issues Truce Demand
Cease-fire talks under way in Najaf
Saturday, August 14, 2004 Posted: 1:16 AM EDT (0516 GMT)

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- A representative of Muqtada al-Sadr has issued demands from the Shiite cleric for a truce between U.S. and Iraqi forces and fighters loyal to him.
The forces have been battling in Najaf for more than a week.

The requirements were set down as cease-fire talks between al-Sadr representatives and Iraqi government and Shiite officials were held to end the fighting.

An official from al-Sadr's office in Baghdad listed the following conditions to bring about peace:


If the multinational forces, Iraqi forces, and Iraqi police leave the city of Najaf and if the Marjayia, the Shiite religious authority, gets full responsibility over the city, al-Sadr's Mehdi militia will pull out from Najaf.


The city of Najaf must be protected by fighters from the city itself, under the authority of the Marjayia.


All detained supporters of the resistance, imprisoned religious clerics, either Shiite or Sunni, and women must be released.


All those who fight the resistance whether they are Sunni or Shiite should not be persecuted and the al-Sadr movement should be able to decide its self whether or it becomes a political movement.


The al-Sadr movement should have full rights to be involved in the political structuring of Iraq.


The Mehdi Army must be an organization that operates under the Marjayia.
Article continues..... Not sure how I feel about this right now. I think he might very well just continue to fester as a growing problem to the Iraqi government.

[RogerL]

Since when do the losers of a conflict dictate the terms? If the government accepts this, they are crazy because he's essentially demanding that Allawi's amnesty be extended to every terrorist in the country, including al-Zarqawi. It's certain the Americans will never agree to those terms. This must be the "sensitive" way to fight a war. You let the losers go and you lose face. :no:

Does sound like the French approach to war. ;)

This militia needs to be crushed once and for all or it will cause trouble for years to come. With tacit approval from al-Sistani, there can be no better opportunity.

[Psycho for Dinar]

Talks are done!

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040814/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_najaf&cid=540&ncid=716

[RET]

OK, I'm under the weather today, so I didn't carefully read everything word for word. But I'm getting mad. Did I read this right . . . they wanted "comp. for families of those killed in conf. w/ Americans"? Give me a break! Don't even get me started! :mad:

Why couldn't they just surround them and smoke 'em out? Or just wait until they run out of food or water? Again, my brain is fuzzy. I need to go to bed.

[Psycho for Dinar]

Very interesting article.......

http://www.sundayherald.com/44104

[Psycho for Dinar]

This has the potential to get real ugly. At first, I thought this guy was really acting ballsy for demanding Allawi and the interm Gov. to disburse. They really need to have open elections quick!! A little passage I found in the Qu'ran:

05.051
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.
PICKTHAL: O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.
SHAKIR: O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.

[Psycho for Dinar]

A little update......

http://www.startribune.com/stories/484/4929660.html

[Psycho for Dinar]

Delegation to be sent to Najaf..........
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/08/16/iraq.main/

[Psycho for Dinar]

Isn't this just special.....oil fire!

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200408/s1178009.htm

[Psycho for Dinar]

Tanks at 500 yards!

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&e=1&u=/ap/20040816/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_fighting_2

[fms]

Tanks at 500 yards!

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&e=1&u=/ap/20040816/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_fighting_2

Will they get Sadr this time or let him call a truce again? there has to be a way to end this standoff. I say we should Tell them to come out of the Shrine or they and it will disinegrate in 5 minutes. I realize that this would incite shite fighters as well as other arabs but this has got to end.If they get too incited we will just kick the Shite out of all of them. They already hate us . Why do we care what they think. We might even gain some respect.

[Collegeinvester1000]

Going into the shrine can't be a good idea, I see your point but woulnd't be good I don't think. You'd think more of the shia population would be mad that they are using it as a base of operations, but who knows maybe some are mad but aren't shown on the media. Yes, I do hope sadr and his gang are destroyed fast, I think they will run out of supplies and be squeezed to tight. What do y'all think?

[fms]

I think this cat and mouse game has to stop.

[fms]

I think the presidents plan was brilliant. To draw all those terrorist to Iraq so we could destroy them there rather than have them fight here on our land. :happy64: :happy64:

[RogerL]

Supposedly there are about twenty or so militia members holed up in the Imam Ali Shrine who have rigged explosives to blow up the shrine if any Americans step foot inside.

They need to send in the Iraqi troops while US troops pull back to some degree to make sure that there's no way we could take the blame. I don't believe the al-Mahdi will destroy the shrine if Iraqi troops come after them.

The Iraqis need to root them out. Once they are separated from the shrine, the Iraqi troops need to completely surround the place, keeping all others out. Then American troops are free to destroy the remaining militia members.

The only fly in the ointment is the ever exasperating desire of politicians of various stripes (and I do mean stripes, yellow ones) to save the militia from destruction. When you have the enemy on the ropes, you either destroy them or you force them to unconditionally surrender.

Sadly, Iraqi politicians keep getting in the way of either alternative, leaving the loser to dictate the terms of the "peace". When that happens, you're only postponing the inevitable. (Can anyone say, "Fallujah"?) The Iranian-backed al-Sadr will only come back again to threaten the stability of the government. This has to be solved one way or another.

[Collegeinvester1000]

I agree, but I think we are probably making good progress in putting down the sadr millitiants

[RogerL]

I think the presidents plan was brilliant. To draw all those terrorist to Iraq so we could destroy them there rather than have them fight here on our land. :happy64: :happy64:You're quite right. The president's said any number of times that it's far better to fight the terrorists over there than in the streets of New York or Los Angeles or Washington D.C.

[fms]

The military could arrange for a plane to crash into the shrine, and say that it was shot down by insurgents. Then they can blame themselves. However they always blame the US any time things do not go according to their hopes.But they hate us any way.

[Psycho for Dinar]

This place is like their Vatican so making a military strike against it would definately put us into an all out holy war with all the Muslim world. Not good!
Also, keep in mind, out of the hundreds of thousands of Shiites in Iraq there are only 1.5 thousand held up with him. Gives me a sign that he doesn't really have the full support of "his people" regarding his actions. After all, he is raging war out of the most Holy of places in their religion...all for the point of having a safe hideout.

[Collegeinvester1000]

All I know is that the Marines/Army/Iraqi police/national guard are killing the millitants way more often then the reverse. It will end eventually hopefully sooner than not.

[Iraqi Al Yahud]

The US will soon cut a deal with Sadr vis a vi Sistani. American has never and will never fight a religious war. Remember Waco from a few years back? Even going after Jim Jones drew critizism and we all know what a nut he was. The US will not engage an enemy with a religious motiff. I have often said if Hitler would have wrapped himself in a ministers robe the US would never have fought Germany. Saddam didnt find religion fast enough.

[Psycho for Dinar]

I agree 100%, Sistani will be the key player to put this to an end!

[bert]

the word is out that if sadr doesnt take the deal from his own people.iraq is going in themselfs,and will get him.we have been told to stay outside and back them up.it's crunch time, so we will see.

[Marilyn]

Well.. Sistani has been conveniently out of the country during all this. He left just before it started for "medical treatment"....

No help there...

[RogerL]

I agree 100%, Sistani will be the key player to put this to an end!I'm not so sure. I think it's pure coincidence al-Sistani absented himself from Iraq for the first time in decades just as US and Iraqi forces closed in on al-Sadr. I still think al-Sistani is giving his permission to destroy al-Sadr.

The only quote I've seen from Sistani was fairly neutral. He didn't call for withdrawal of forces or anything that could get in the way of American and Iraqi troops finishing the job.

[Iraqi Al Yahud]

Sorry folks, native Iraqis will not "kill" Sadr. Plain and simple. All this big bad tough talk from Powell, Rumsfeld and Bush is all hot air. Remember Fallujah? Remember seeing those burned bodies from the bridge? Ah yeah, we going to get those fellas that did this.... Yeah right, still nothing. The Americans only control very small parts of Iraq. The vast majority of the country is unpatrolled by the Americans or their allies. I have been told by native Iraqis in Baghdad 2 days ago, that Iranian civilians are taking up residence throughout much of Iraq. The real battle will take place between the Arabs and the Kurds to the north.

[Psycho for Dinar]

Sistani wants to return..........

http://www.iht.com/articles/534265.html

[Marilyn]

The US will soon cut a deal with Sadr vis a vi Sistani. American has never and will never fight a religious war. Remember Waco from a few years back? Even going after Jim Jones drew critizism and we all know what a nut he was. The US will not engage an enemy with a religious motiff. I have often said if Hitler would have wrapped himself in a ministers robe the US would never have fought Germany. Saddam didnt find religion fast enough.


You're right... these groups tend to self destruct.
Jones, Koresh, and don't forget "Heavens Gate"... they all went poof at the end.

[fms]

The US will soon cut a deal with Sadr vis a vi Sistani. American has never and will never fight a religious war. Remember Waco from a few years back? Even going after Jim Jones drew critizism and we all know what a nut he was. The US will not engage an enemy with a religious motiff. I have often said if Hitler would have wrapped himself in a ministers robe the US would never have fought Germany. Saddam didnt find religion fast enough.
I was just talking about Waco and the Branch Davidians today. Where is Janet Reno when you need her? :lmao:

[Iraqi Al Yahud]

Peeps, does it really matter if Sadr wins control???? I am only interested in my dinars gaining value. The quality of the new dinar is outstanding. Let the Shia run Iraq. The neutral pictures on the bills wont offend. I doubt highly if any new government will change money again. My dinars are behind Sadr. Once the Shia rally behind him, Sistani will have no option but to bless him and officially back him. The Sunni knowing their options are few will also fall in line. Big problem will be the Kurds. Israel has armed them to the teeth with a full line of armaments including battle tanks and f-16s with the Kurdish flag flown for now by Israeli pilots. My real fear is a major blowout between Israel and Iran.

[Marilyn]

'His aides have denied suggestions Sistani left Najaf out of concerns for his safety.

Although he opposes the involvement of the Shi'ite religious establishment in politics, Sistani has advocated pluralism in postwar Iraq and has stood against U.S. plans to have a permanent constitution drafted by an unelected body.'

http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=5988263&pageNumber=1

[fms]

[QUOTE=Iraqi Al Yahud]Sorry folks, native Iraqis will not "kill" Sadr. Plain and simple. That`s what I`m afraid of. They will not take care of business and it keeps getting our guys killed. :(

[Iraqi Al Yahud]

Again people, Sadr has the will of the masses. His masses are willing to die. The other Iraqis will either join or perish. This will not become another Lebanon. I only hope that Iran and Israel can work out a deal.

[RogerL]

Peeps, does it really matter if Sadr wins control???? I am only interested in my dinars gaining value. The quality of the new dinar is outstanding. Let the Shia run Iraq. The neutral pictures on the bills wont offend. I doubt highly if any new government will change money again. My dinars are behind Sadr. Once the Shia rally behind him, Sistani will have no option but to bless him and officially back him. The Sunni knowing their options are few will also fall in line. Big problem will be the Kurds. Israel has armed them to the teeth with a full line of armaments including battle tanks and f-16s with the Kurdish flag flown for now by Israeli pilots. My real fear is a major blowout between Israel and Iran.There are other things beyond dinars. (/me ducks) It matters a great deal if al-Sadr wins since he's backed by the mullahs of Iran. If a theocracy like Iran's is formed in Iraq, the region will become even more unstable. For Iraq to fall back into being a supporter of terrorism is incredibly frightening. People like al-Zarqawi will become even more emboldened like he is with each successful kidnapping and ransom, except he won't stop at just kidnappings. For the sake of the world, democracy must win.

[Psycho for Dinar]

Peeps, does it really matter if Sadr wins control???? I am only interested in my dinars gaining value. The quality of the new dinar is outstanding. Let the Shia run Iraq. The neutral pictures on the bills wont offend. I doubt highly if any new government will change money again. My dinars are behind Sadr. Once the Shia rally behind him, Sistani will have no option but to bless him and officially back him. The Sunni knowing their options are few will also fall in line. Big problem will be the Kurds. Israel has armed them to the teeth with a full line of armaments including battle tanks and f-16s with the Kurdish flag flown for now by Israeli pilots. My real fear is a major blowout between Israel and Iran.


It really won't matter? If that freak was to gain control, you may as well throw all your dinar in the trash. Every egotist in that region has to have his smiling face on the bank notes!

[RogerL]

Again people, Sadr has the will of the masses. His masses are willing to die. The other Iraqis will either join or perish. This will not become another Lebanon. I only hope that Iran and Israel can work out a deal.Where'd you hear that? Sadr has the support of mostly young, out of work Iraqis numbering a few thousand at most. The Shia, in general, follow Sistani, not Sadr.

And his masses may die, if the politicians would let our soldiers finish the job.

[Iraqi Al Yahud]

Iran is a democratic theocracy. Iran is not a liberal democracy such as the United States or France. Classical liberalism ( individual rights and stuff) is a relatively new idea. Forcing ideas down anyones minds is not in Americas interest. Now if America wants to "win" this war in Iraq or Afghanistan it must be willing to kill which it is not since we are a liberal democratic society. Remember people, our mind set has progressed from the middle ages. Other societies have not developed the same.

[Psycho for Dinar]

"This is not a negotiation. This is a friendly mission to convey the message of the National Conference," said delegation head Hussein al-Sadr, a distant relative of the cleric. "We want to change the Mahdi Army into a political organization and to evacuate the shrine of Ali with the promise not to legally pursue those taking shelter there. This is what the government and all Iraqis want."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,129165,00.html

[King Dinar]

There are other things beyond dinars. (/me ducks) It matters a great deal if al-Sadr wins since he's backed by the mullahs of Iran. If a theocracy like Iran's is formed in Iraq, the region will become even more unstable. For Iraq to fall back into being a supporter of terrorism is incredibly frightening. People like al-Zarqawi will become even more emboldened like he is with each successful kidnapping and ransom, except he won't stop at just kidnappings. For the sake of the world, democracy must win.
Good point however without stability, democracy won't cut it...

[Iraqi Al Yahud]

See,
Sadr is not all that bad:http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20040817/wl_mideast_afp/iraq_unrest_pope_040817153042

[Collegeinvester1000]

I would find it highly unlikely for the Pope to mediate this situation.

[Iraqi Al Yahud]

Remember it was the Pope, not Reagan that collapsed communism.

[Collegeinvester1000]

haha that and the natural flaws in Communism!

[Psycho for Dinar]

Iraq's Sadr Declines to Meet Najaf Peace Delegation


http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=5999625

[Iraqi Al Yahud]

Apparently, American media have ignored or are unaware of the Vatican mediation efforts. The Pope has been asked by Sadr to mediate talks between the waring groups. Sadr turned down talks by the Iraqi conference today, not the Vatican.

[Psycho for Dinar]

I think it'll be a cold day when you see the Pope go through the doors of the Imam Ali shrine!

[Iraqi Al Yahud]

Yes,
Remember about 3 years ago the Pope went on a Jubilee tour of the middle east and was scheduled to visit the city of UR in Iraq? Yes, until Saddam told the Vatican it could not "guarantee" the safety of the Pope while in country. The Pope desperatly wants to visit Iraq.

[Blake]

Unsettling investigative 3-page article about what prompted the invasion of Najaf. NY Times still possesses a lot fo world credibility and I fear this article will not make things any easier. WTF is going on? If this is true, Military Forces need to get on the same page.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/18/international/middleeast/18najaf.html
8-Day Battle for Najaf: From Attack to Stalemate

By ALEX BERENSON and JOHN F. BURNS
http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/misc/spacer.gif
Published: August 18, 2004

NAJAF, Iraq, Aug. 17 - Just five days after they arrived here to take over from Army units that had encircled Najaf since an earlier confrontation in the spring, new Marine commanders decided to smash guerrillas loyal to the rebel Shiite cleric Moktada al-Sadr.

Acting without the approval of the Pentagon or senior Iraqi officials, the Marine officers said in recent interviews, they turned a firefight with Mr. Sadr's forces on Thursday, Aug. 5, into a eight-day pitched battle, one fought out in deadly skirmishes in an ancient cemetery that brought them within rifle shot of the Imam Ali Mosque, Shiite Islam's holiest shrine. Eventually, fresh Army units arrived from Baghdad and took over Marine positions near the mosque, but by then the politics of war had taken over and the American force had lost the opportunity to storm Mr. Sadr's fighters around the mosque.

Now, what the Marines had hoped would be a quick, decisive action has bogged down into a stalemate that appears to have strengthened the hand of Mr. Sadr, whose stature rises each time he survives a confrontation with the American military. Just as seriously, it may have weakened the credibility of the interim Iraqi government of Prime Minister Ayad Allawi, showing him, many Iraqis say, to be alternately rash and indecisive, as well as ultimately beholden to American overrule on crucial military and political matters.

As a reconstruction of the battle in Najaf shows, the sequence of events was strikingly reminiscent of the battle of Falluja in April. In both cases, newly arrived Marine units immediately confronted guerrillas in firefights that quickly escalated. And in both cases, the American military failed to achieve its strategic goals, pulling back after the political costs of the confrontation rose. Falluja is now essentially off-limits to American ground troops and has become a haven for Sunni Muslim insurgents and terrorists menacing Baghdad, American commanders say.

The Najaf battle has also raised fresh questions about an age-old rivalry within the American military - between the no-holds-barred, press-ahead culture of the Marines and the slower, more reserved and often more politically cautious approach of the Army. Army-Marine tensions also have surfaced previously, notably when the Marines opened the Falluja offensive, only to be ordered to pull back..........

[minigirl]

that is unnerving....

hey Blake, why don't they do what they did at Waco and just blast some Metallica or Marilyn Manson at them.... or maybe some Pearl Jam! ;)

[BRYAN]

I seams that if we sent in Barney to negotaite, :rolleye03 he won't get hurt , because everyone knows Barney !!!

[Collegeinvester1000]

Don't beleive the New York Times. It has a terrible track record. At least take it with a grain of salt, no no, a shaker of salt to get the nasty taste of that vile paper out of your mouth!

[Blake]

Don't beleive the New York Times. It has a terrible track record. At least take it with a grain of salt, no no, a shaker of salt to get the nasty taste of that vile paper out of your mouth!Even with the recent Jayson Blair debacle, I wouldn't say the NY Times a terrible track record, at least not in the public's perception, and that is what is important here nonetheless. And this is a 3 page investigative report with interviews of Marine officials. It's going to carry some serious clout.

[Collegeinvester1000]

Yeah you are right about perception. I must have missed that connection. They haev been known to print rumors though, I just am not a huge fan of them ANYWAY, it's 12 31 eastern time............hmmmm

[Blake]

CNN BREAKING NEWS:

Spokesman for radical cleric Muqtada al-Sadr says he has agreed to terms of Najaf peace deal offered by Iraqi government. Details soon.

A miracle maybe? Keeping my fingers crossed.

[Blake]

Here is more on this great news.....Report: Al-Sadr Agrees to Withdraw Najaf Fighters (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,129275,00.html)

BAGHDAD, Iraq — Radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr agreed to withdraw fighters from the Imam Ali shrine in Najaf Wednesday just hours after Iraqi officials gave him and his militia hours to lay down their arms before they stormed the holy shrine where about 3,000 fighters are holed up.

A delegate at Iraq's National Conference, however, said al-Sadr agreed to exit the holy site.
The planned battle came as officials refused to send a second delegation to Najaf to try to end the clashes between al-Sadr loyalists and U.S. troops after al-Sadr rebuffed the group.

Iraqi Defense Minister Hazem Shaalan said Iraqi forces were fully trained for a potential mission to oust the militants.

"Today is a day to set this compound free from its imprisonment and its vile occupation," Shaalan told the Arab-language television station Al-Arabiya.

Since peace talks have failed, "we have to turn to what's stronger and greater in order to teach them a lesson that they won't forget, and to teach others a lesson as well," Shaalan said. "In the next few hours, they have to surrender themselves and their weapons."

But Shaalan stressed that U.S. forces would not enter the Imam Ali shrine if an operation was carried out.
"There will be no American intervention in this regard. The only American intervention would be aerial protection and also securing some of the roads that lead to the compound. As for entering the compound, it will be 100 percent Iraqis," Shaalan said.

"Our sons in the national guard have been trained on the breaking-in operation, which was easy for them," he said. U.S. troops have avoided the shrine for fear of enraging Shiites worldwide.

After Shaalan's threat, renewed bombing and gunfire were heard near Najaf's Old City, the center of much of the previous fighting.

While never referring to al-Sadr's Mahdi Army militia by name, Shaalan referred to those who occupied the shrine as a "gang dressed in the clothes of religion."

State Minister Qassim Dawoud said the planned raid on the shrine would send a message to insurgents throughout Iraq.

"This will be a civilized lesson for those in Fallujah, Samarra, Mosul, Yusufiyah or Basra. Their is no lenience ... with those people," he said.

In a statement released Wednesday, Iraqi Prime Minister Ayad Allawi accused al-Sadr's militia of planting bombs around the mosque but he made no mention of an impending Iraqi attack.

Conference delegates suggested they were fed up with the anti-American al-Sadr, believed to also be in the shrine, after their eight-man delegation met with his aides Tuesday but never saw the cleric himself.

"If there were anyone sympathizing with him in the past, there will be none from now on because of this stand," delegate Abdul-Halim al-Ruhaimi said Wednesday.

"These delegates will not go again, they presented their proposal, the ball is now in his [al-Sadr's] court," added another official, adding that a new delegation could go to Najaf from the 100-member Iraqi National Council after it is established.

Al-Sadr aide Ahmed al-Shaibany said the cleric did not show because of the "heavy shelling from the planes and tanks of the U.S. forces.".......

[iraqidinar2005]

Enough is enough...Iraq has a governement...I Hope the rid themselves of this idiot...Martyr...Who cares...There are hundreds of thousands of Shia and Kurdish Martyrs that died at the hands of Saddam...Sadr doesn't give a shit about them, he only cares about his popularity....


Bye Sadr...Should have chosen an alternative path to voice your opinion...

[Blake]

more on the developing story.....



Spokesman: Al-Sadr agrees to disband militia (http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/08/18/iraq.main/index.html)

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Radical cleric Muqtada al-Sadr announced Wednesday he will leave the Imam Ali Mosque, after a threat by the government to "liberate" it from al-Sadr's militia.

Radical cleric Muqtada al-Sadr has agreed to Iraqi demands that he leave the Imam Ali mosque in Najaf, disband his Mehdi Army and "enter into the mainstream political process," his spokesman said today. The announcement came after the nation's interim defense minister said Iraqi forces were prepared to raid the mosque where al-Sadr's militia is holed up

In a letter from al-Sadr's office in Baghdad, al-Sadr said he agreed to three demands made to him Tuesday night by a delegation from the conference -- that he and his forces leave the mosque, disband his Mehdi Army and "enter into the mainstream political process."
Delegates to the conference cheered when the letter was read Wednesday, but some of them were quick to point out that unanswered questions remained -- including when the militiamen would withdraw from the mosque.

The letter came after Iraqi interim Defense Minister Hazem Sha'alan said the government had completed preparations for a military operation to "liberate the holy shrine" and regain "Najaf city from the gang of mercenaries".......

[DogBone]

I wonder why I can find this story on Al-Jazeera ???? :no:

[RogerL]

more on the developing story.....We can all pray this is true. Sadr's agreed to truces before. I'll believe it when he disbands his militia, both in Najaf and in Sadr City in Baghdad.

[Tyeronious]

If I were Sadr I would have included a dental plan in the truce......... Have you seen that dudes teeth? Damn!!!!!! Or they could just shoot him? Dead guys don't need dental plans.

[Collegeinvester1000]

I like your style.......

[Psycho for Dinar]

more on the developing story.....

He "kinda" agrees. First the US and its Iraq forces must leave Najaf. I don't think they're about to walk out the front door leaving their weapons in a pile.

[Blake]

Link Please?

[Psycho for Dinar]

Many more like this under Google search...Najaf........


"Sayyed Moqtada and his fighters are ready to throw down their weapons and leave for the sake of Iraq. But they should
stop attacking him first and pull away from the shrine," Ali al-Yassiri, Sadr's political liaison officer, told Reuters on
Wednesday.

http://www.swisspolitics.org/en/news/index.php?section=int&page=news_inhalt&news_id=5154283

[Blake]

Doesn't "should" have a different meaning than "must"??
And isn't Najaf a bit bigger than just the shrine itself??

;) ;)

[Psycho for Dinar]

For some odd reason, I just can't picture Sadr giving up his precious militia and the arsenal behind it. Call me crazy. :drunk:

[Raven]

O'L Sadr cant deside what to be it looks like

[neptune]

Al-Sadr only has a few hours left...
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/08/19/iraq.main/index.html

[Psycho for Dinar]

Let the games begin!!!

Haidar al-Tourfi, an official at al-Sadr office's office in Najaf, said he received a text message from al-Sadr rejecting the demands.

"Either martyrdom or victory," the message said, according to al-Tourfi.


http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/world/iraq/20040819-0611-iraq.html

[Raven]

Ihave to head down toward najaf tommorow see if i cant get a few rounds in as i pass :p

[Psycho for Dinar]

Stay safe brother and whip that S.O.B. the finger for me!!!

[Marilyn]

Let's get this city cleaned up and secure it for the good folks who live in the shadow of such a great Holy Place. The residents of Najaf deserve peace...

[Psycho for Dinar]

Last call.............
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-4435156,00.html

[Psycho for Dinar]

Sadr city under attack also....ol' boys getting his a** kicked!

http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000087&sid=a_I1iVej8tao&refer=top_world_news