What's this all about?

[British Bulldog]

What's it all about??

The oil, it's all about the oil I hear you say. Like everything else on this planet, oil has a price. The US appears to be paying much more than the going rate in both dollars and lives.

What am I babbling about?? A few quick calculations. Bush has just requested a further $200 billion for Iraq next year. Iraq has 120 billion barrels of proven oil reserves. Lets assume the US has staked a claim on 20% of these reserves. thats 24 billion barrels.

$200 billion / 24bb = $8.50 (approx). So in theory, $8.50 of all the 24 billion barrels is paid for already. Then factor in what has already been pumped in.... a guess at $800 billion. This takes the sum total to approx $43 of 24 billion barrels already paid for and this is without factoring the cost of our lost soldiers.

How long will it take to pump that much oil?? Will Iraq be here long enough to pump it??

Unless the US has a sizable stash of dinar to cover these costs, which alot of people dispute, WTF is all this about because it's doesn't seem to be about the oil.

Tiring scouser seeks clarity and ideas. :rock:

[Fat Albert]

Good point. This is a staggering amount of money! It is beyond my thinking how this works out financially. There must be a strategic plan somewhere.

[Midnight Tide]

It is about the oil, but is also about the petrol dollar. They had to invade to keep the oil being sold in dollars, not euros or some basket of currencies.

[British Bulldog]

It is about the oil, but is also about the petrol dollar. They had to invade to keep the oil being sold in dollars, not euros or some basket of currencies.

A few months ago I would have agreed but with the rapidly sliding dollar and news of ME countries considering dropping the dollar I am not so sure anymore. It seems like a big gamble with poors odds to me.

[RoyalBeluga]

Where's all this negativity coming from recently? :no2:

[British Bulldog]

Where's all this negativity coming from recently? :no2:

As days and weeks go by things change. I am not trying to be negative, just analysing these changes and seeking answers to the scinarios these changes throw up. I have always belived this was all about the oil, I am just not so sure anymore and seek some clarity.

[RoyalBeluga]

As days and weeks go by things change. I am not trying to be negative, just analysing these changes and seeking answers to the scinarios these changes throw up. I have always belived this was all about the oil, I am just not so sure anymore and seek some clarity.

Oil or Money ... what difference will it make to the value of the Dinar?

[nomad33]

Overly simple minds often state that it's all about the oil...
It is also about the ideology of reducing fanaticism of a group of people who wish to annihilate another group. The real problem is that we live in a time of possible mass destruction which could lead to the extinction of the human race from this planet entirely (along with most other life on Earth). Unless we evaluate the whole story, a few soundbytes of liberal drivel is all we get from the heavily biased news sources on television.
Unfortunately, the fanaticism has grown so deep and so warped that it becomes necessary to remove some of the most radical permanently to allow freedom to assert itself. Killing those who murder innocents to intimidate and control is far different due to desired outcome. Wanton killing of innocents is criminal and uncivilized. High civilization is impossible to achieve or maintain so long as the uncivilized are allowed to control.
Thinking people understand this readily. Power crazed liberals who refuse to admit full understanding of these facts due to desire for "control" through government are not so far removed from the less civilized radicals who don't even pretend to be civilized. That's why the radicals cozy up to the libs and vice versa.

[latefordinar]

......wow!

[TimP]

Anyone ever give it some thought...the idea that maybe President Bush was being truthful when he said the battle for Iraq is a part of the Gobal War on Terror? That is is just one front of the war?

That maybe, just maybe, he is honestly concerned for our safety and the safety of our country?...and Britians, and Europe and the rest of the world?

That maybe its a LEFT wing plot, dumbing us down to control us, disparaging our President and our troops...and not a RIGHT wing plot to control Iraq's oil??

That maybe the USA did not go into this battle to control or seize Iraq's oil but to ensure a free flow of oil from the Middle East itself???

That maybe there really ARE monsters in this world who want to kill us...and not just idiotic inexperianced soldiers putting panties on the heads of detainees?

That maybe it really isn't ALL ABOUT THE OIL??????????????

....naw, couldn't be...could it?

great post there nomad33

[Rohan's Rider]

Nomad33 - well written. It is and always has been about the huge divide between Islamic fundamentalism and a democratic way of life. We in the West are not without fault - far from it but who wants to be under the yoke of Islam?

The atrocities that have been committed and will continue to be committed on men, women and children under the name of this ghastly not so peaceful religion are like a cancer throughut the world. Yes, we should fear it because always somewhere there are dangerous, indoctrinated young men and sometime women willing to blow themselves up and takes hundreds of innocents with them for a totally errononeous cause.

Frankly I am sick to death with the whole Islamic scenario, the so called moderates who claim their religion is peaceful should stand up and be counted. I have no doubt that if nuclear weapons and/or dirty bombs get into their hands they will use them. They hate us (us meaning non Muslims)with a venom and worse they just don't care because they believe that Allah will reward them however wicked their actions are. I am no fan of GWB and as for $200 billion that seems an awesome amount of money but we have to be vigilant because we cannot let these extremists win.
Remember their ethos is to make the whole world Muslim and I personally would rather be dead than have have that foisted upon me.

[The Baghdaddy]

It is about the oil, but is also about the petrol dollar. They had to invade to keep the oil being sold in dollars, not euros or some basket of currencies.
You hit the nail right on the head. Saddam announces he may peg oil to the euro. He is then removed. Doesn't take the brains of an Arch Bishop to work that one out.........

[The Baghdaddy]

What's it all about??

The oil, it's all about the oil I hear you say. Like everything else on this planet, oil has a price. The US appears to be paying much more than the going rate in both dollars and lives.

What am I babbling about?? A few quick calculations. Bush has just requested a further $200 billion for Iraq next year. Iraq has 120 billion barrels of proven oil reserves. Lets assume the US has staked a claim on 20% of these reserves. thats 24 billion barrels.

$200 billion / 24bb = $8.50 (approx). So in theory, $8.50 of all the 24 billion barrels is paid for already. Then factor in what has already been pumped in.... a guess at $800 billion. This takes the sum total to approx $43 of 24 billion barrels already paid for and this is without factoring the cost of our lost soldiers.

How long will it take to pump that much oil?? Will Iraq be here long enough to pump it??

Unless the US has a sizable stash of dinar to cover these costs, which alot of people dispute, WTF is all this about because it's doesn't seem to be about the oil.

Tiring scouser seeks clarity and ideas. :rock:
They are aiming for six million BPD in the not so distant future maybe three years or slightly longer. How long would that take according to your maths? Its Sunday BB I havent the brain power for it lol...........:wink:

[British Bulldog]

They are aiming for six million BPD in the not so distant future maybe three years or slightly longer. How long would that take according to your maths? Its Sunday BB I havent the brain power for it lol...........:wink:

At 6 mil bpd, US taking a quarter of the daily oil produced... 24 billion / 1.5 miliion bpd = 16 000 days or 43 years. :bandit:

[The Baghdaddy]

At 6 mil bpd, US taking a quarter of the daily oil produced... 24 billion / 1.5 miliion bpd = 16 000 days or 43 years. :bandit:
Can you remember not so long back on UK news we only just paid back our WW2 debt to the US. I dont see much of a problem really, it will take them (Iraq) less time than it took us to pay their debt back.

[JIMBODEANR]

JUST A THOUGHT.
What about the AMERO will this factor in, as the US dollar depreciates rapidly. OH this thought has to go to the speculation thread. Could this be just the begining of the acceptance of the AMERO ?

[Gladiator]

The answer to the question of this thread is in posts 8, 10 and 11. Thanks to the posters.

A question that branches from this is what motivates the “useful idiots” ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot ) to believe propaganda originating from antiwar leaders like George Soros, whose only purpose is to destroy western civilization? It’s not low IQ.

I believe the main reason they fall for propaganda like “Bush lied” or “it’s all about the oil” is fear. Because once you face the fact that you are targeted for death, the next step is to contemplate defending yourself and many do not have the guts to defend themselves either physically or politically.

[Howler]

What's it all about??

The oil, it's all about the oil I hear you say. Like everything else on this planet, oil has a price. The US appears to be paying much more than the going rate in both dollars and lives.

What am I babbling about?? A few quick calculations. Bush has just requested a further $200 billion for Iraq next year. Iraq has 120 billion barrels of proven oil reserves. Lets assume the US has staked a claim on 20% of these reserves. thats 24 billion barrels.

$200 billion / 24bb = $8.50 (approx). So in theory, $8.50 of all the 24 billion barrels is paid for already. Then factor in what has already been pumped in.... a guess at $800 billion. This takes the sum total to approx $43 of 24 billion barrels already paid for and this is without factoring the cost of our lost soldiers.

How long will it take to pump that much oil?? Will Iraq be here long enough to pump it??

Unless the US has a sizable stash of dinar to cover these costs, which alot of people dispute, WTF is all this about because it's doesn't seem to be about the oil.

Tiring scouser seeks clarity and ideas. :rock:



Excellent post BB
I've said all along the oil was very important. But the Big Picture invovles planting the seed of democrocy. Effecting change from withing the entire region!

[The Baghdaddy]

Excellent post BB
I've said all along the oil was very important. But the Big Picture invovles planting the seed of democrocy. Effecting change from withing the entire region!
I hear where you are coming from and its a very noble thought. I dont just believe everything I read as most on hear know, but it really is, was and always has been about the oil.
They were planning on how to take out Iraq before even 9/11 just so happened al qaeda had to be dealt with first and they were encamped in Afghanistan.
I have no problem defending myself or my country if I/ we are attacked. To believe that we are in Iraq to sow the seed of democracy smacks of naiivety of childish proportions.
We didnt get taken to war or invade a soverign country to sow the seeds of democracy. We were told they had WMD's. We here in the UK and our parliament were shown an INTELLIGENCE dossier to back this up. That dossier turned out to be a student thesis.
I'm sorry but I hate it all this we are "spreading democracy" rubbish. We would have been far better in Afghanistan swamping it and kicking Al qaeda and Taliban butt there in bigger numbers. Maybe then our kids wouldn't be getting heroin pushed on them at record low prices causing death and misery to many young lives.
Spreading democracy is a noble cause, but if its through the barrell of a gun then what makes us so great. Just my thoughts Howler not out to blast you or anything just countering your post a little.

[Howler]

IMO the oil was just a bonus.
We had to do something in the region. And if this doesnt work.........its end game time.

Iran is teetering on the brink right now. They had some liberties for a while, the younger generation was starting to love thier freedoms. Then the midget dictator took control and imposed Shira law again.
Just that little taste of freedom they had, might be enough to topple Iran from within. That my friend is the true reason we are in the middle east. To give the people over there something besides hate. Because if thats all they have, they will, eventually come after us!

[John Jay]

Oil or Money ... what difference will it make to the value of the Dinar?

Oil and Money make all the difference to the value of the Iraqi Dinar.

[The Baghdaddy]

IMO the oil was just a bonus.
We had to do something in the region. And if this doesnt work.........its end game time.

Iran is teetering on the brink right now. They had some liberties for a while, the younger generation was starting to love thier freedoms. Then the midget dictator took control and imposed Shira law again.
Just that little taste of freedom they had, might be enough to topple Iran from within. That my friend is the true reason we are in the middle east. To give the people over there something besides hate. Because if thats all they have, they will, eventually come after us!
Good post and dead right. However I would say that Democracy is the bonus...... oil the reason lol. Good one though Howler you are dead right with the above.

[doobiedude]

What's it all about??

Unless the US has a sizable stash of dinar to cover these costs, which alot of people dispute, WTF is all this about because it's doesn't seem to be about the oil.

Tiring scouser seeks clarity and ideas. :rock:

What does WTF stand for? World Trade Federation or something?

[RoyalBeluga]

What does WTF stand for? World Trade Federation or something?

Its Scouse slang for "What The Flip" :whew:

[Gladiator]

I hear where you are coming from and its a very noble thought. I dont just believe everything I read as most on hear know, but it really is, was and always has been about the oil.
They were planning on how to take out Iraq before even 9/11 just so happened al qaeda had to be dealt with first and they were encamped in Afghanistan.
I have no problem defending myself or my country if I/ we are attacked. To believe that we are in Iraq to sow the seed of democracy smacks of naiivety of childish proportions.
We didnt get taken to war or invade a soverign country to sow the seeds of democracy. We were told they had WMD's. We here in the UK and our parliament were shown an INTELLIGENCE dossier to back this up. That dossier turned out to be a student thesis.
I'm sorry but I hate it all this we are "spreading democracy" rubbish. We would have been far better in Afghanistan swamping it and kicking Al qaeda and Taliban butt there in bigger numbers. Maybe then our kids wouldn't be getting heroin pushed on them at record low prices causing death and misery to many young lives.
Spreading democracy is a noble cause, but if its through the barrell of a gun then what makes us so great. Just my thoughts Howler not out to blast you or anything just countering your post a little.



If the Bush Administration wanted oil, why don’t they have it by now?

It’s very easy to draw false conclusions if we overlook the fact that in order to be true, verbal claims must correspond with actual events in the real world.

The fatal error in your position is that you are unable to provide facts. How the oil goes from Iraq oil fields to Cheney’s bank account. I’m not talking about ridiculing your own theory by making vague generalizations such as past connections to Halliburton or that Bush is “an oilman.” These generalizations are good for firing emotions but they don’t tell us anything about reality.

[COACH JACK]

The answer to the question of this thread is in posts 8, 10 and 11. Thanks to the posters.

A question that branches from this is what motivates the “useful idiots” ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot ) to believe propaganda originating from antiwar leaders like George Soros, whose only purpose is to destroy western civilization? It’s not low IQ.

I believe the main reason they fall for propaganda like “Bush lied” or “it’s all about the oil” is fear. Because once you face the fact that you are targeted for death, the next step is to contemplate defending yourself and many do not have the guts to defend themselves either physically or politically.
YOU, GLADIATOR, ARE EXACTLY RIGHT ON...WOW!! VERY WELL SAID, INDEED.....

[Tricky]

Anyone that wants to view this UNCLASS Power point presentation I have PM me your e-mail address. Ionly log on once/twice a day so you may not get it until the next day. Tricky


Executive Lecture Forum
Radvanyi Chair in International Security Studies
Mississippi State University
“Fighting the Long War--
Military Strategy for the War on Terrorism”


Rear Admiral Bill Sullivan
Vice Director for Strategic Plans & Policy
The Joint Staff J5

[cnbmis]

If the Bush Administration wanted oil, why don’t they have it by now?

It’s very easy to draw false conclusions if we overlook the fact that in order to be true, verbal claims must correspond with actual events in the real world.

The fatal error in your position is that you are unable to provide facts. How the oil goes from Iraq oil fields to Cheney’s bank account. I’m not talking about ridiculing your own theory by making vague generalizations such as past connections to Halliburton or that Bush is “an oilman.” These generalizations are good for firing emotions but they don’t tell us anything about reality.

Have you stopped to think that the argument is larger than W or Cheney "wanting" oil... I'll ignore for a moment that neither Cheney nor Halliburton were mentioned until your post. The point is that redenominating oil would likely lessen the dollar's position in the world economy, which seems would subsequently lessen it's value in the world economy. There is also the suggestion that saddam hoped to impact oil flow out of the region, likely for his personal gain, and that would certainly have not helped anyone -- more expensive oil and more money in the hands of a megalomaniacal dictator.

Of course, with the dollar weakening as we speak anyway, who knows, maybe oil denominated in another currency would be a better thing mid-long term. Short term, it would certainly increase the price to us in the US :( and I don't look forward to that.

As for the "simple minds" comment supported by you, it is sad when debate so often shifts to a personal attack, or an attack on intellect. That's a load, and presumes that the holder of one opinion is somehow superior to one who holds a differing opinion. Presumptions founded thusly are indicative of a similar offense as being charged against the so-called simple minded. I do, however, believe people should avoid sweeping, absolute assertions on something as complex as the origins and objectives of military action... as they do result in oversimplification. Regardless the motivations, it is sad that so many of our "news sources" are more concerned with summarizing and sound bites, rather than lengthy investigative reporting and open debate.

Speaking of debate -- the debate does not *always* have to be right vs. left, conservative vs. liberal, republican vs. democrat... the focus should be facts, and yes... Iraq has been on lists of state sponsors of terrorism, but if you notice the detail on the below link, it appears Iraq's saddam hussein was mainly focused on protecting his dictatorship, with some limited outward reach in providing safe haven.

http://www.milnet.com/state/State-Terror.htm

excerpted from State: http://www.state.gov/www/global/terrorism/1999report/sponsor.html

Iraq was on the radar, but was it the most significant threat? Iran, Sudan and Syria were highlighted more strongly in the 1999 reports above. Iraq's direct connection has been argued against by so many sources including the 9/11 Report (http://www.gpoaccess.gov/911/index.html) (section 10.3), and I'm not going to cite the others here. Osama did not much like saddam anyway, and did not seek or receive help from him. There have been so many other terrorist acts before and after that illustrate the wide-ranging origins of terrorism. Perhaps Iraq was seen as a strategically convenient and secondary front to expand the overall war on terrorism since we were already in the region... other countries were considered early on, who may have provided safe haven: Rumsfeld mentioned "Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Sudan and Iran. He wondered aloud how much evidence the United States would need in order to deal with these countries..." (9/11 Report, section 10.2 Planning for War).

I think it's interesting that in the years since beginning our operations, little mention is made of countries where these terrorists were found to have originated, lived or traveled, including Saudi, Germany, Pakistan, UAE, Bahrain, Netherlands, Kuala Lumpur, Thailand, and more in Southeast Asia. Some of these places were where tangible support was transacted, and though we certainly would not have considered military action against those countries, perhaps cooperative police actions would have been (and would still be?) productive.

Our operations in Iraq have opened a gathering point for extremists to come in, which has allowed us to eliminate scores of individuals with a propensity to violence and terror. The effect on the underlying philosophical drivers behind terrorism, however, has not been as strong as if we had continued the focus on Afghanistan and widened the effort to other disruptive operations in countries beyond.

I believe this will be the more significant impact -- combat the origins of philosophy that result in extremist ideology, and you will have far fewer individuals to target, and those individuals will have far fewer places to hide. As it is, there are so many extremists, with such wide-ranging cooperatives, that they can take advantage of the civilized world's desire to exchange, live and travel openly with each other.

I hope there are as-yet undocumented operations being conducted that are going after this very goal... it will take time, but will definitely save many lives.

So, it's not all about the oil... but it can not be negated as a factor. If everyone would take a little more time presenting their points, we may find more areas of agreement rather than division.

Chris :)

[COACH JACK]

Have you stopped to think that the argument is larger than W or Cheney "wanting" oil... I'll ignore for a moment that neither Cheney nor Halliburton were mentioned until your post. The point is that redenominating oil would likely lessen the dollar's position in the world economy, which seems would subsequently lessen it's value in the world economy. There is also the suggestion that saddam hoped to impact oil flow out of the region, likely for his personal gain, and that would certainly have not helped anyone -- more expensive oil and more money in the hands of a megalomaniacal dictator.

Of course, with the dollar weakening as we speak anyway, who knows, maybe oil denominated in another currency would be a better thing mid-long term. Short term, it would certainly increase the price to us in the US :( and I don't look forward to that.

As for the "simple minds" comment supported by you, it is sad when debate so often shifts to a personal attack, or an attack on intellect. That's a load, and presumes that the holder of one opinion is somehow superior to one who holds a differing opinion. Presumptions founded thusly are indicative of a similar offense as being charged against the so-called simple minded. I do, however, believe people should avoid sweeping, absolute assertions on something as complex as the origins and objectives of military action... as they do result in oversimplification. Regardless the motivations, it is sad that so many of our "news sources" are more concerned with summarizing and sound bites, rather than lengthy investigative reporting and open debate.

Speaking of debate -- the debate does not *always* have to be right vs. left, conservative vs. liberal, republican vs. democrat... the focus should be facts, and yes... Iraq has been on lists of state sponsors of terrorism, but if you notice the detail on the below link, it appears Iraq's saddam hussein was mainly focused on protecting his dictatorship, with some limited outward reach in providing safe haven.

http://www.milnet.com/state/State-Terror.htm

excerpted from State: http://www.state.gov/www/global/terrorism/1999report/sponsor.html

Iraq was on the radar, but was it the most significant threat? Iran, Sudan and Syria were highlighted more strongly in the 1999 reports above. Iraq's direct connection has been argued against by so many sources including the 9/11 Report (http://www.gpoaccess.gov/911/index.html) (section 10.3), and I'm not going to cite the others here. Osama did not much like saddam anyway, and did not seek or receive help from him. There have been so many other terrorist acts before and after that illustrate the wide-ranging origins of terrorism. Perhaps Iraq was seen as a strategically convenient and secondary front to expand the overall war on terrorism since we were already in the region... other countries were considered early on, who may have provided safe haven: Rumsfeld mentioned "Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Sudan and Iran. He wondered aloud how much evidence the United States would need in order to deal with these countries..." (9/11 Report, section 10.2 Planning for War).

I think it's interesting that in the years since beginning our operations, little mention is made of countries where these terrorists were found to have originated, lived or traveled, including Saudi, Germany, Pakistan, UAE, Bahrain, Netherlands, Kuala Lumpur, Thailand, and more in Southeast Asia. Some of these places were where tangible support was transacted, and though we certainly would not have considered military action against those countries, perhaps cooperative police actions would have been (and would still be?) productive.

Our operations in Iraq have opened a gathering point for extremists to come in, which has allowed us to eliminate scores of individuals with a propensity to violence and terror. The effect on the underlying philosophical drivers behind terrorism, however, has not been as strong as if we had continued the focus on Afghanistan and widened the effort to other disruptive operations in countries beyond.

I believe this will be the more significant impact -- combat the origins of philosophy that result in extremist ideology, and you will have far fewer individuals to target, and those individuals will have far fewer places to hide. As it is, there are so many extremists, with such wide-ranging cooperatives, that they can take advantage of the civilized world's desire to exchange, live and travel openly with each other.

I hope there are as-yet undocumented operations being conducted that are going after this very goal... it will take time, but will definitely save many lives.

So, it's not all about the oil... but it can not be negated as a factor. If everyone would take a little more time presenting their points, we may find more areas of agreement rather than division.

Chris :)
Agree, wholeheartedly, with much you have stated here. IMHO, Saddam crossed over the line when he entered Kuwait, period. From that point on, and with zero positive outcomes from the UN sanctions, Saddam and Iraq's fate was locked and loaded, waiting for the right time to move forward in securing the flow of ME oil.

[tesla]

Nomad33 - well written. It is and always has been about the huge divide between Islamic fundamentalism and a democratic way of life. We in the West are not without fault - far from it but who wants to be under the yoke of Islam?

The atrocities that have been committed and will continue to be committed on men, women and children under the name of this ghastly not so peaceful religion are like a cancer throughut the world. Yes, we should fear it because always somewhere there are dangerous, indoctrinated young men and sometime women willing to blow themselves up and takes hundreds of innocents with them for a totally errononeous cause.

Frankly I am sick to death with the whole Islamic scenario, the so called moderates who claim their religion is peaceful should stand up and be counted. I have no doubt that if nuclear weapons and/or dirty bombs get into their hands they will use them. They hate us (us meaning non Muslims)with a venom and worse they just don't care because they believe that Allah will reward them however wicked their actions are. I am no fan of GWB and as for $200 billion that seems an awesome amount of money but we have to be vigilant because we cannot let these extremists win.
Remember their ethos is to make the whole world Muslim and I personally would rather be dead than have have that foisted upon me.

Wow your close!!

But the real war, the truth to all this is the battle between Islamic fundamentalism and Jesuit fundamentalism (beware all ism's). USA Democracy is in the crosshaires of the Jesuits because of our freedom of religious belief.

Jesuits or the strong arm of the Catholic Church are behind all this.......dont believe me take the time and study about the history of the world.....heres a good starting point.:wave:

http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/blackpope.htm

[The Baghdaddy]

If the Bush Administration wanted oil, why don’t they have it by now?

It’s very easy to draw false conclusions if we overlook the fact that in order to be true, verbal claims must correspond with actual events in the real world.

The fatal error in your position is that you are unable to provide facts. How the oil goes from Iraq oil fields to Cheney’s bank account. I’m not talking about ridiculing your own theory by making vague generalizations such as past connections to Halliburton or that Bush is “an oilman.” These generalizations are good for firing emotions but they don’t tell us anything about reality.
Us the UK and the USA and other allies have secured (or are trying to secure one of the worlds biggest oil assetts.
If Saddam had pegged his oil to the euro as he announced he would, many other middle east countries would have followed suit. FACT.
HE WAS INVADED AND TOPPLED. FACT.
We are on the brink, for the first time in history of a soverign country signing over LARGE portions of its oil rights. Something no other country has ever done to the scale Iraq is preparing. FACT.
Watch Iraq once that HCL goes through that is all I will say. That country will get sold up so fast it will blur before your eyes. That is a prediction NOT FACT.
I am not making vague generalisations.
Really, if you think that George W Bush really believed Saddam had weapons of mass destruction and thats why he and our prime minister went to war WELL OK THEN.........They then changed their mind when they found none and decided that the original plan was to oust an evil dictator and spread democracy.
Well if they were the plans all along what are we still doing there and why is the USA breathing sooo hard down the GOI's neck to get the HCL passed so as foreign oil companies can come on board.
If that wasn't such an issue why bother passing the HCL at all?
Please, no one in their right mind can tell me that Iraq wasn't about oil.

[stinkydinarcrazedidiot]

Wow your close!!

But the real war, the truth to all this is the battle between Islamic fundamentalism and Jesuit fundamentalism (beware all ism's). USA Democracy is in the crosshaires of the Jesuits because of our freedom of religious belief.

Jesuits or the strong arm of the Catholic Church are behind all this.......dont believe me take the time and study about the history of the world.....heres a good starting point.:wave:

http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/blackpope.htm

Apparently you know nothing about the Jesuits. I went to a Jesuit high school and no forms of knowledge were ridiculed or lambasted. Evolution was taught right alongside creationism without being dismissive or disparaging of evolution.

[Midnight Tide]

I still think that the entire point of invading Iraqi is money. Its that simple, bringing democracy - ideology - terrorism is just extra benefits. Those people who make the decisions do not care about any of this. They are being paid to make big corporations BIG money.

Do they care that people are dieing because tyrants across the world? Nope. Do they care about people dieing because they are of a certain race of religion -NOPE. They care about the cash flow. Look at the US medical system - HMOs are designed to limit payments so they can make more money. The big oil companies - limit supply and there you go, more profits.

But go ahead and say I am some kind of liberal, or I hate the government, or that I am just plain stupid. But I can tell you this people, its all about the money - and thats a fact. (and thats why I think the GoI is going to keep on delaying the HCL, cause they don't want to share the oil money to the common Iraqi either)

[tesla]

Apparently you know nothing about the Jesuits. I went to a Jesuit high school and no forms of knowledge were ridiculed or lambasted. Evolution was taught right alongside creationism without being dismissive or disparaging of evolution.

I think the key word is fundamentalism, which Im sure you understand does not include everyone that is "Islamic" or in "the Society of Jesus".

None of us have to like the truth, but prove me wrong???

By the way, this war is also about DRUGS!!!!!

http://www.nexusmagazine.com/articles/bushcheney.html