Islam Too Strong To Conquer

[Iraqi Al Yahud]

I hate to say it folks but the US will not "win" this war. Just as the US turned its back on Lebanese Christians in 1991 to win support of the Syrians to fight Saddam, the US will soon turn its back on the Iraqi mess and go home. Islam is a religion with over 1 billion followers worldwide, many of which have no problem strapping on a bomb and walking down a crowded street. Americans do not have the will to do the same. Americans will not retaliate in a similar fashion. How many Americans have gone to Pakistan and hunted down radical Muslims? 0. How many Americans have gone to Lebanon and killed Hizbollah members? 0 How many Americans have gone to the Gaza strip and killed Hamas members?0 Israel is the lone nation that has the will necessary to win this type of war. Any that has to do with religion, America will lose.

[joec]

I hate to say it folks but the US will not "win" this war. Just as the US turned its back on Lebanese Christians in 1991 to win support of the Syrians to fight Saddam, the US will soon turn its back on the Iraqi mess and go home. Islam is a religion with over 1 billion followers worldwide, many of which have no problem strapping on a bomb and walking down a crowded street. Americans do not have the will to do the same. Americans will not retaliate in a similar fashion. How many Americans have gone to Pakistan and hunted down radical Muslims? 0. How many Americans have gone to Lebanon and killed Hizbollah members? 0 How many Americans have gone to the Gaza strip and killed Hamas members?0 Israel is the lone nation that has the will necessary to win this type of war. Any that has to do with religion, America will lose.

Why are you comparing Americans to Muslims? There are 5-7m muslims in the United States. Don't overgeneralize, chief. You can't say that a religion will win a country in a battle, especially when there are many people of that religion in the country. Hell, this war isn't about the Islamic faith. It is about the wacky bastards that head up groups of militia men who aren't fighting for their religion, but for some beliefs of a cult-like leader.

[Psycho for Dinar]

Since when was the US in war with Islam? We have radical factions of Christians in the US that go around blowing up abortion clinics. These "people" are definately being hunted down, but that does not imply that we are war against Christiananity. Sistani is true Islam, Sadr is not.

[kelleyB]

I usually don't butt into things of this nature, but I can't resist this one. Though this is your opinion and by all means you are entitled to it, I am not sure that this is the place to be parading political, religious, and tactical beliefs. Especially on the board for welcoming the newcomers. Not a good example to be setting. I am not speaking for everyone, just myself. I feel you were out of line. I am not here to belittle your country or anyones country. Nor am I here to predict the outcome of a war. Or discuss religion, but since I am not GOD, I was not born with the power to predict or judge. I may be ignorant, but I don't think you were either. I am sorry that you seem to be bitter or angry. I hope it goes away from you soon. Best to you. :)

[Marilyn]

I heard the US President give a speech this morning and he made it very clear that the US will not back out of Iraq and that we will stay for as long as it takes to get the job done.

This is a war against terror, not against Iraqi's, not against Muslims, and certainly not against Islam. I live in NYC and have neighbors of every faith. My community has Temples, Churches and Mosques.... We defend every one of them.

[Roger]

I hate to say it folks but the US will not "win" this war. Just as the US turned its back on Lebanese Christians in 1991 to win support of the Syrians to fight Saddam, the US will soon turn its back on the Iraqi mess and go home. Islam is a religion with over 1 billion followers worldwide, many of which have no problem strapping on a bomb and walking down a crowded street. Americans do not have the will to do the same. Americans will not retaliate in a similar fashion. How many Americans have gone to Pakistan and hunted down radical Muslims? 0. How many Americans have gone to Lebanon and killed Hizbollah members? 0 How many Americans have gone to the Gaza strip and killed Hamas members?0 Israel is the lone nation that has the will necessary to win this type of war. Any that has to do with religion, America will lose.
There were at least 2 countries in recent past ( you forgot to research ), Germany and Japan. They had similar thoughts about our great country, not to mention the "cuba" crises. You keep on with that kind of logic. Go hunt your virgins, but dont EVER count out Americans as having backbone and resolve to keep after the terrorist's. They have not been gotton after in any resounding fashion, like we are after em now.
My personal opinion is that the US has left the borders open up to now, so's most of the insurgents will " take up the cause ", only to be insnared in Iraq and be sent to see Allah. You take care, Ill pray 4 ya

[Iraqi Al Yahud]

People, Islam as practiced in most of the middle east is not benevolent towards non believers. The penalty for converting from Islam to another religion is death in most of the middle east. Iraq is a moslty shia and mostly young country. Sadr has tremendous support among the young and poor. His supporters are and have died for their causes in the name of Islam first and Iraq second. The US got a taste of this kind of war in Beruit 1983 remember? We left very soon.

[Jeffrey]

Well I have never been short for words.....but I have to say that as I was creating my response in my mind, I read Marylin's and Roger's responses...

I think exactly what the 2 of them wrote!

Especially the part where WE WILL FIGHT TO THE END for your religion and any other religion to have the RIGHT to practice your faith in this country!

Would you fight for me to be able to practice my religion in yours???

And Dude....get a clue....nobody is fighting against Islam. But the Islamic Militants PREY on uneducated, uninformed people to make them think that is what is going on. Guess it worked in your case. :mad:

[Marilyn]

According to the current forum guidelines, rule#12 prohibits discussions on religion. The historical aspects of this thread are fascinating and may be continued in the new political discussion forum. opening soon. See you there!

[iraqidinar2005]

I concur with most of the posts on this board...

Religion has nothing to do with it, however, if individuals claim that religion is their cause and hurt one hair on my families head, I WILL come at that group with a vengance knowing that they are misinterpretting the Quran.

How many Americans have gone to Pakistan and hunted down radical Muslims? 0..

Where have you been for the past 3 years? We liberated the people of Afhganistan of such extremists.

How many Americans have gone to Lebanon and killed Hizbollah members? 0

Not my department...Can't answer.

How many Americans have gone to the Gaza strip and killed Hamas members?0

What does this have to with American's? Why are Americans singled out to police this?

This is just my opinion, however, since when did we become responsible for this conflict? We do what we do to protect our country and to provide assistance. We have morales.

Bottom line, why can't the Palestinians and Jewish share the land, live in harmony and respect others religions? Instead, they have this tit for tat thing going because many are uneducated or easily influenced by elementary type of peer pressure.

If the leaders of both countries were true leaders and not trying to be bigots with each side teaching hate, they may accomplish a harmony amongst each other.

True leaders need to step up on both sides and says enough is enough. We will forgive the last attack as long it is the last attack, we will accept the loss and work towards peace.

To kill this religious argument I submit the following info as I know it:

1) America is a melting pot, tolerant of all religions to practice their beliefs without fear of reprucussion.
2) Islam and Judism acknowledge Jesus, not as the son of God as Christianity does, but as a prophet. My question to the extremists is this, a prophet to whom? Allah/God.
3) NonBelievers are those that have read and understand the literature and yet choose not to accpet Allah/God as their maker. All religions should provide witness to them and if they still don't accept Allah/God, then the "War" should be between them and Allah/God.

What right does any mere human have to judge the fate of a human of Allah's creation. By killing people, they are deystroying Allah's creation and placing themselves in God like positions by judging them and deciding their fate.

Do these humans feel themselves better than Allah?

[iraqidinar2005]

What right does any mere human have to judge the fate of a human of Allah's creation. By killing people, they are deystroying Allah's creation and placing themselves in God like positions by judging them and deciding their fate. Do these humans feel themselves better than Allah?

I hope the extremists are sure of their fate. They manipulate Allah's human creation by encouraging them to sacrifice their live in suicide missoin.

How can those followers ask for forgiveness for their sins once they have departed via suicide?

They can't!!!

These so called leaders have condemned their relatives to hell for the sake of thier cause, however, Allah will judge those that encouraged them....

[iraqidinar2005]

Search Amazon.com for the following:

Holy Lands: One Place Three Faiths....

ISBN: 1-929049-86-02

[DinarLuna]

As long as there is Oil and Natural Gas, the US will not leave Iraq! Especially with the amount of money we are dumping into the country. Plus there are more positive things being done in Iraq now than ever before. The media only covers negative news not positive, so don't be fooled.

[TwoTone]

I hate to say it but I think you are right DinarLuna. While the evidence pointing to that has not been blown up by the media ( they would never publish anything meanspirited against the current administration ), I think that it will become evident as things begin to unfold.
The US seems to only get involved in conflicts when the outcome will be substancially beneficial for America financially / Politically.

involvement in Desert storm... protect Saudi ( PetroDollars )

Involvement in Afghanistan / Russia war.....To bleed USSR to death and essentially end the cold war.

Funded both sides of the iran / iraq war and looked away when Chemical weapons were being used ( that wasnt our concern. We should take that approach more often).... why?? i still dont really know that one.

No one knows how this is all going to end, and I am sure there is some kind of under-lying reason why this is all happening and that wont be made public for a while.

TT

[RogerL]

I hate to say it but I think you are right DinarLuna. While the evidence pointing to that has not been blown up by the media ( they would never publish anything meanspirited against the current administration ), I think that it will become evident as things begin to unfold.
The US seems to only get involved in conflicts when the outcome will be substancially beneficial for America financially / Politically. This is a joke, right? The media have been trying to destroy the president before he even took office. Just witness comments by: John Carroll, editor of the LA Times; Evan Thomas, Assistant Editor for Newsweek who said that the press bias is good for 15% for Kerry; and Daniel Okrant, ombudsman for the NY Times. For the first time, the press is openly expressing their bias.

The US will not leave the area as long as there are terrorists. There's absolutely zero evidence any of this has to do with oil. If it were, oil wouldn't be sitting at almost $47/barrel. Expensive oil jeopardizes the president's election, not cheap oil.

Involvement in Afghanistan / Russia war.....To bleed USSR to death and essentially end the cold war.Afghanistan in 1979 or Afghanistan in 2001? I agree in 1979 that we were there to help bring down the Soviets. I'd have to say that bringing down the Soviets was a very, very good cause even if you can categorize it as political. In 2001, we were there to destroy al-Qaeda, again an excellent cause. That had to do with survival and not financial/political.

Funded both sides of the iran / iraq war and looked away when Chemical weapons were being used ( that wasnt our concern. We should take that approach more often).... why?? i still dont really know that one.Actually, we didn't fund Iran. Iran was the enemy. Israel, on the other hand, did supply Iran with money and weapons since Saddam was its arch enemy. Since we didn't give them anything, their arsenal of American equipment left over from the days of the Shah essentially disintegrated.

No one knows how this is all going to end, and I am sure there is some kind of under-lying reason why this is all happening and that wont be made public for a while.Is there a reason why the obvious reason isn't good enough for you? We are there in a war to destroy terrorists. Plain and simple. Lots of terrorists in Iraq. Remember Abu Nidal and Abu Abbas and Zarqawi? Two of those three are dead or captured. The other will eventually be brought down, either by us or by the Iraqis. These guys were there long before we ever showed up.

[DinarLuna]

It isn't the price of oil that they are worried about it's about control of the oil. People are starting to realize that we are getting close to, if not already at "Peak Oil". They believe that we are beginning the decline of the amount of oil being produced.

The price of oil will continue to go up no matter who is the president. It is supply and demand. Everything that is produced or manufactured depends on oil. Unless we find a sufficient alternative energy source, then we will start to run out of oil. Limited supply of oil means high cost per barrel.

Do a google search for "peak oil" you will be amazed with what you find.

[lasagnabro]

Islam is too strong to conquer? Well considering we're not fighting a war against a religion, I'd say that statement is rediculous. Now islamo fascists that like to murder those that don't share their beliefs, that's another story, we are fighting them. Daily around the world, islamo fascists murder, Israelis, Hindus, Budhists, Christians and...other muslims! Notice the majority of those murdered in Iraq over the last few months have been innocent Iraqis looking for work. The psychotic islamo fascist thinks murdering those not like them is the best way of political discussion. Currently Turkey is the only moderate Islamic nation that is not run by religion and that has any semblance of Democracy. Phillipines...India...Iraq...Chechnya...Indonesia. ..Syria...Lebanon...Israel...
the list goes on and on where muslim whack jobs murder those not like them. The war we fight is against evil scum that want to murder innocent people who don't think like them. The war we fight is about preventing those same murdering scum from murdering 6 million Israelites that they would do in a second if they could. Islamo fascists have a fascination with a tiny strip of land they claim is occupied by Israel while millions of acres of Arab owned terrority is empty. What's wrong with that land? Now if only those islamo whack jobs could go to work, raise some crops, put their kids in school, go on a picnic, fly a kite and not murder innocent folks around the world. Why is that so hard? Israel will nuke every muslim nation in the middle east if they are attacked with chem, bio or nuke weapons. This will bring in Russia, China, India, Pakistan and ultimately involve the whole world. Those same whack jobs already have schools here in the U.S. where children are taught to hate the Jews, Christians, Hindus, Budhists and other muslims not crazy like them. They lie in wait to take over the U.S. Muslim groups have made statements to the effect that Islamic Law is the only way for the U.S. to operate. This is the war we fight. Good against Evil. ;)

[TwoTone]

The US funded Iran against Iraq.

The US Allowed Israel to sell arms to Iraq in the fight against Iran

The US asked the Saudis to sell US planes and satelite intelligence to Iraq. ( At first only planes were given but the Iraqis did not know what or where to strike so the US had to provide them with satelite imagery )



... The obvious reason for the war is that we are trying to kill terrorism. okay fine lets kill terrorism. was Iraq actively engages in terrorist operations against America. The terrorists have been Labeled as Al Qaeda and we went after them and their Taliban friends already.... Now They are fighting us in Iraq, them and any other Terrorists in the region that want to come and take " pot shots " at the Americans.
Lets Defend America. I'm not going to say our borders are at risk of invasion, but we are stretched thin. There is a plan to Bring forces back ( has been in the works for 2 years now ) over the next decade. Lets bring our forces home and defend the home front. Get out of the line of fire and strike the terrorists how it hurts them most, with missles from far far away. We can see them with satelites and what not. We're masters os small team tactical insertions and extractions of small teams to wreak havoc on unsuspecting militants. Those are the real heroes. They are the ones that are the real quiet proffessionals and love what they do and wont let us down. Let the terrorists blow the living crap out of eachother and lets beef up our defenses.

[lasagnabro]

You're all over the place dude.
[QUOTE=TwoTone]The US funded Iran against Iraq.
We funded Iran? Iran contra? is that what you mean? Selling old weapons to make money to fight commie mass murderers in south america ain't so bad.
Al Goreleone and bill clintong 'allowed' Russia to sell arms to Iran breaking the IMF loan provisions and thus breaking the law.

The US Allowed Israel to sell arms to Iraq in the fight against Iran
How does the "US Allow" Israel to do anything? Israel signed long term defense contracts and strategic agreements with India and Turkey. Did the US allow that happen? Or did Israel negotiate on their own?

The US asked the Saudis to sell US planes and satelite intelligence to Iraq. ( At first only planes were given but the Iraqis did not know what or where to strike so the US had to provide them with satelite imagery )
Iraqi planes were Soviet built migs just as their tanks are soviet built.

.. The obvious reason for the war is that we are trying to kill terrorism. okay fine lets kill terrorism. was Iraq actively engages in terrorist operations against America. The terrorists have been Labeled as Al Qaeda and we went after them and their Taliban friends already.... Now They are fighting us in Iraq, them and any other Terrorists in the region that want to come and take " pot shots " at the Americans.
WHo are 'they'? Yes we went after al qaeda and the taliban and are still after them and killing them. A majority of the 'fighters' in Iraq are not iraqis. They are syrian, iranian, saudi, chechnyan and other muslims. The Iraqis that are doing the terrorism are leftovers from sadamn. They are from the baath party and are both sunni and shia. Most of the families in and around baghdad and the suburbs, had to be loyal to sadamn, now they are unemployed and still brainwashed.
Lets Defend America. I'm not going to say our borders are at risk of invasion, but we are stretched thin. There is a plan to Bring forces back ( has been in the works for 2 years now ) over the next decade. Lets bring our forces home and defend the home front.
Yes that's all fine and dandy but anyone with a clue knows that the borders of America will never be closed like they should be. Immigration should be shut off for 10 years to recover what has been lost of America. Most immigrants come here to steal healthcare and welfare, spit on our flag, refuse to speak english and don't assimiliate and become American. Yes, John Rocker was right. It's a sad state and we should defend our borders. President Bush's plan to bring our troops home from overseas is a good start and should be implemented immediately. Bring them home within 2 years, not 5 or 10. Screw germany and france and the rest of the socialist eurotrash.

[RogerL]

The US funded Iran against Iraq.

The US Allowed Israel to sell arms to Iraq in the fight against IranI do believe you have this backwards. The US funded Iraq against Iran. At the time, we had nothing against Iraq, though we didn't like Saddam, but feared Iran's militantism. Israel, on the other hand, despised Saddam and feared him enough to destroy the Osirak nuclear power plant to prevent him from getting nuclear weapons. A number of administration officials admitted to wishing that Iraq and Iran would destroy each other.

... The obvious reason for the war is that we are trying to kill terrorism. okay fine lets kill terrorism. was Iraq actively engages in terrorist operations against America. The terrorists have been Labeled as Al Qaeda and we went after them and their Taliban friends already.... Now They are fighting us in Iraq, them and any other Terrorists in the region that want to come and take " pot shots " at the Americans. Actually, Iraq was engaged in terrorist plotting against us. Vladimir Putin warned the United States four times that Russian intelligence had discovered Iraqi plans to attack American interests, both inside and outside the US. Yet Putin ironically felt that the known threat of an Iraqi attack was insufficient justification to invade. I have to wonder what he thinks DOES constitute sufficient justification.

We are not just at war with al-Qaeda. In President Bush's speech before Congress on Sept. 20, 2001, he clearly stated that we are at war with all terrorist groups with "global reach". So just 9 days after 9/11, we knew Afghanistan was only going to be the first battle.

Lets Defend America. I'm not going to say our borders are at risk of invasion, but we are stretched thin. There is a plan to Bring forces back ( has been in the works for 2 years now ) over the next decade. Lets bring our forces home and defend the home front. Get out of the line of fire and strike the terrorists how it hurts them most, with missles from far far away. We can see them with satelites and what not. We're masters os small team tactical insertions and extractions of small teams to wreak havoc on unsuspecting militants. Those are the real heroes. They are the ones that are the real quiet proffessionals and love what they do and wont let us down. Let the terrorists blow the living crap out of eachother and lets beef up our defenses.I agree with your point on bringing the troops home. What possible reason is there to hold 100,000 troops in Germany or 50,000 in Japan? Who are we defending against? Bring them home immediately. The ten years was probably some lame attempt to ease the transition on Germany's local economy as the disappearance of so many soldiers and families would severely impact the region where the troops were stationed. So instead of closing more of our bases and affecting a number of our local economies, I find it eminently more satisfying to bring our troops home to fill those empty bases.

I strongly disagree with the standoff approach of merely launching cruise missiles from long range. bin Laden remarked that firing those missiles was a sign of weakness. Clinton's only response to any terrorist attack was to launch a "million dollar missile at a ten dollar tent to hit a camel in the butt." This approach merely emboldened bin Laden to strike at the US directly without fear of retribution. He felt that President Bush would respond in exactly the same way as Clinton.

There was no way for him to know that just three years later, two-thirds of known al-Qaeda leadership would be dead or captured, he'd be trapped in a cave with the only means of communication being by courier, or that the US would liberate both Afghanistan and Iraq, freeing 50 million people. Taliban leader, Mullah Omar, had warned bin Laden of what would happen, but bin Laden dismissed his warnings, believing Americans to be weak.

Nor did he know that Bush would turn Pakistan into an ally in the War on Terror, becoming a key contributor to rooting out and destroying much of al-Qaeda. The most recent warnings of attacks on US buildings came directly from successful arrests by Pakistan.

Oh right. I forgot. We don't have any allies. Pakistan is just an illusion, as are the other 30 countries with us in Iraq since we acted purely unilaterally. ;) (That's a knock on the Democrats, who like a broken record, keep saying that we acted unilaterally without allies.)

[TwoTone]

My fault about the Iran / Iraq mix up.


Allies? Lets see who they are

Afghanistan
Albania
Australia
Azerbaijan
Bulgaria
Colombia
the Czech Republic
Denmark
El Salvador
Eritrea
Estonia
Ethiopia
Georgia
Hungary
Italy
Japan
South Korea
Latvia
Lithuania
Macedonia
the Netherlands
Nicaragua
the Philippines
Poland
Romania
Slovakia
Spain
Turkey ( Ally? Wouldn't let us through their country to get to Iraq )
United Kingdom
Uzbekistan



Only a handull of these are actually steadfast supporters of the war. The rest of these are here for other reasons be it their dependancy on American aid in one way or another or flat out bribery.


http://www.ips-dc.org/COERCED.pdf


TT

[TwoTone]

How does the "US Allow" Israel to do anything? Israel signed long term defense contracts and strategic agreements with India and Turkey. Did the US allow that happen? Or did Israel negotiate on their own?




I think the US allowed it to happen.

Iran Says It May Pre-empt Attack Against Its Nuclear Facilities
By NAZILA FATHI

Published: August 20, 2004


EHRAN, Aug. 19 - Iran's defense minister, Vice Adm. Ali Shamkhani, has warned that Iran may resort to pre-emptive strikes to prevent an attack on its nuclear facilities.

Admiral Shamkhani made his comments in an interview on Al Jazeera television on Wednesday in response to a question about the possibility of an American or Israeli attack against Iran's nuclear projects.


"We will not sit to wait for what others will do to us," he said. "Some military commanders in Iran are convinced that preventive operations which the Americans talk about are not their monopoly. Any nation, if it feels threatened, can resort to that."

There has been speculation here that Israel may attack Iran's nuclear sites, as it struck against Iraq's nuclear facilities at Osirak in 1981.

A commander of Iran's hard-line Revolutionary Guards warned this week that Iran would strike Israel's reactor at Dimona if Israel attacked Iran's nuclear sites.

"If Israel fires one missile at Bushehr atomic power plant, it should permanently forget about the Dimona nuclear center, where it produces and keeps its nuclear weapons," said the commander, Gen. Mohammad Baqer Zolqadr.

Admiral Shamkhani said Iran was certain that Israel would not carry out such an attack without a green light from the United States. "So you cannot separate the two," he said.


http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/20/international/middleeast/20iran.html


TT

[Raven]

:( as a soldier im on the front of the type of battles exspressed here today i have had these discusions with many friends muslim, christian, and athiest alike from many diferent countries it is easy to sit there and bicker about right and wrong.
no one in this world has killed more arabs of the islamic or christian faiths than muslims themselves, and on the other hand the same can be said within america and europe between catholic, christian and any other religion to blame one nation for the actions of raticals is wrong.
Iraqi Al Yahud as you say you dont see individual or small groups of americans comming to these countries to hunt down these groups well thats because it would be wrong to do so under a democratic sosiety as with the war on terror we debate our issues with our government at home but our leaders still make the decisions and then we carry it out as a country useing terror cells to kill is actually a bad way to win for at the end there is no one left to enjoy the priviledges of the cause they blew themselves up killiong one or two of there targets and 20 or so of there own people.
there is no religious issue here the Qur'an (koran for the others) is a great book of peace it has many religious leaders around the world in many countries that all agree that the killings you refer to are wrong
on the other hand the bible is a great book of peace as well with just as many religous figures to back its claims.
ive not seen one instance of america sending christians to islamic countries to convert so where that statment came from i dont know and that is not to say churches do not do that for they do on both sides of the fence.
now that ive babbled on cant we all just get along and believe what we believe? on a quick note every one vote for the person you think is best for the job forget parties it is why our founding fathers even though they were in them said they would be the end of america. washington hated political parties
peace towards human kind kill the aliens from space :p

[Iraqi Al Yahud]

Yes, Iraqi Jews are not invited to particpate in the new government. Iraqi Christians are leaving by the tens of thousands per week. Yet here in America, we have many Mosques being built with Saudi money. Can you image an American Jewish group sending money to Basra to rebuild a temple? The Vatican has a hard enough time telling Iraqi Christians not to be afraid of their fellow citizens. So for me, the facts are simple. Islam is far too strong to control. America will never have the strength to say no to the mullahs. Look at Beirut. Look at Iran. Both times Reagan either left or paid off the clerics.

[RogerL]

My fault about the Iran / Iraq mix up.No problem. Happens to the best of us. :)

Allies? Lets see who they areWhy disparage the allies? And not all of them are bribed. Many of them, especially the eastern European ones, know what it's like to live under totalitarian rule and are also grateful for the role the United States played in freeing them from despotism. Add in the Central American nations that are grateful to Ronald Reagan for their freedom from communists who feel the same way as the eastern Europeans. That's a lot of countries. So they have evey incentive to help out, both from gratitude and from ideological reasons. Unlike some of the western European nations whose leaders had to buck their own public opinion to help America, the eastern European and Central American nations wholeheartedly support us in our goals.

I find it objectionable when Kerry continues to call our actions unilateral or alternatively, the "coalition of the coerced," odd since those are completely contradictory. These people are bleeding and dying as well and should not have their sacrifices dismissed so easily. Just because they don't have standing armies that can contribute signficantly doesn't mean their sacrifices have any less meaning. Nobody but Britain has a standing army large enough for additional deployment. Even France can't no matter what John Kerry says since it's engaged in Afghanistan and many African nations.

Many of these "coalition of the coerced" have contributed greatly. The Poles, for one, kept 17 rockets and 2 mortar shells filled with deadly cyclo-sarin (What's that? There *ARE* WMD's in Iraq, you say?) out of the hands of terrorists in south, central Iraq when they were tipped off that terrorists were bidding $5,000 apiece for them. Just one of those shells could have killed thousands of our soldiers since cyclos-sarin is five times deadlier than sarin. The British have helped considerably in quelling the al-Mahdi militia. The Bulgarians helped by resisting kidnapper demands by holding steady.

Turkey ( Ally? Wouldn't let us through their country to get to Iraq )The Turkish government wanted to help, but were overruled by a narrowly failed vote in their legislature, which required a supermajority to permit the 4'th Infantry Division to attack from Turkey. There were also some political considerations with the Kurdish population within Turkey, itself. The government is very wary of the Kurds joining forces with the Iraqi Kurds, so they have to tread carefully.

[Uno]

Turkey ( Ally? Wouldn't let us through their country to get to Iraq )

Remember Desert Storm?? The marines practiced amphibious manuevers in preparation for landing on Kuwaiti beaches. The Iraqi's then began beefing up defenses along the beach and ignored most of the desert.
As history shows, the Marines did not land on the beaches! The U.S. Army swung around and cut off the defenses. This is a prime example of Mis-information using the news media to confuse and exploit the enemy!!

Personal opinion is that Turkey was another "mis-information" ploy to confuse the enemy and get them to divert resources. Unfortunately, I have no documented proof...

[TwoTone]

Many of these "coalition of the coerced" have contributed greatly. The Poles, for one, kept 17 rockets and 2 mortar shells filled with deadly cyclo-sarin (What's that? There *ARE* WMD's in Iraq, you say?) out of the hands of terrorists in south, central Iraq when they were tipped off that terrorists were bidding $5,000 apiece for them. Just one of those shells could have killed thousands of our soldiers since cyclos-sarin is five times deadlier than sarin. The British have helped considerably in quelling the al-Mahdi militia. The Bulgarians helped by resisting kidnapper demands by holding steady.


Yes Iraq had many chemically loaded weapons..... YEARS ago.... Chemical weapons expire and the intelligence community knew that they were expired but decided to go ahead and parade the sarin loaded shells infront of the medias eyes.... just like the DRAWING of the alleged mobile chemical production station that was shown as PROOF to the UN Security council...

If the US wants to find some serious chemical weapons stashed they should look to Syria..... try a google search for "dooms day deterent ", " syria".... scary stuff.

[RogerL]

Yes Iraq had many chemically loaded weapons..... YEARS ago.... Chemical weapons expire and the intelligence community knew that they were expired but decided to go ahead and parade the sarin loaded shells infront of the medias eyes.... just like the DRAWING of the alleged mobile chemical production station that was shown as PROOF to the UN Security council...

If the US wants to find some serious chemical weapons stashed they should look to Syria..... try a google search for "dooms day deterent ", " syria".... scary stuff.I agree with you that the ones that have been found are old, but are still effective according to DoD. Cyclo-sarin also has a far longer shelf life than ordinary sarin. Regardless, after the Gulf War, Saddam went to a just-in-time chemical weapons program, rather than storing the weapons themselves.

Take a look at this rather illuminating article:

Saddam's WMD's Have Been Found (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38213)

As for Syria, I agree with you there, too. The ISG believes that a large number of WMD's were moved to Syria in the days leading up to the invasion.

[minigirl]

I agree with you that the ones that have been found are old, but are still effective according to DoD. Cyclo-sarin also has a far longer shelf life than ordinary sarin. Regardless, after the Gulf War, Saddam went to a just-in-time chemical weapons program, rather than storing the weapons themselves.

Take a look at this rather illuminating article:

Saddam's WMD's Have Been Found (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38213)

As for Syria, I agree with you there, too. The ISG believes that a large number of WMD's were moved to Syria in the days leading up to the invasion.


*sigh* I could listen to you all day Roger - you're so well-spoken and non-confrontational. You could read the phone book and I'd be rapt. ;)

[TwoTone]

BUMP!!

( For RogerL cause he insists we have a lot of valid allies that are in this because they truely believe in the betterment of Iraq rather than their own benefit be it from american aid or EU recognition )


TT

[kelleyB]

*sigh* I could listen to you all day Roger - you're so well-spoken and non-confrontational. You could read the phone book and I'd be rapt. ;)

Gee someone get some towels I think Mini just melted. :lmao:

"Oh Roger" *sigh*

[minigirl]

Gee someone get some towels I think Mini just melted. :lmao:

"Oh Roger" *sigh*


LOL hehe yeah, well Roger is married - all the good ones are! ;)

Anyway, my ex-husband's name is Roger... I just couldn't... no. I just couldn't deal. lol

I'll have to admire you from afar Roger!! :wave: