President Bush served 6 years.

[lasagnabro]

Notice that those who decry President Bush's 6 years in the National Guard as a joke, and an easy way out, tend to ignore the fact that their hero joan kerry only served 4 months in Vietnam in actual combat zones. Notice also that the very same socialists that support the hero kerry think the Vietnam war is great when it's a democrat. This makes sense since a democrat president got us into Vietnam. If however, President Bush had flown in Vietnam, these very same people would call President Bush a 'baby killer' since he had dropped bombs in Vietnam. The hypocrisy never ends. The plane that President Bush flew up and down the east coast, an outdated F4 phantom, it was a flying accident waiting to happen. President Bush volunteered to fly in Vietnam but lacked the 600 hours needed to qualify having only 400. His father flew planes in a war, and President Bush is no coward. Flying planes takes more skill in 5 minutes of operation than driving a boat on a river takes in 2 years. Also the very same folks who rail against President Bush's service in the National Guard as a joke, and insignificant, spit in the eye of those that have served, and are serving now in the National Guard. :wave:

[Psycho for Dinar]

Dude, ever since that truck accident....well.......I hate to say it but you haven't been the same! Repeat after me, Bush is good, Bush is good! :lmao:

[Wolverine]

Depends on the bush, yea I guess bush can be good :lmao: :lmao:

i prefer shaved but i am still voting for BUSH!!~!!!! :happy64:

[Wolverine]

I don’t discredit anyone who has served in the Regular military or National guard. I think they all are equally important in the defense of our country. But I still wont vote for President Bush. Just heard on the news today that there are fewer jobs and the jobs that were gained were lower paying jobs over the last 4 years. Want to get out of deficit, start creating higher paying jobs and get the people back to work. Higher paying jobs means more taxes. The person that promises to do that has my vote for sure.

the news quotes about jobs you speak of are relating to last couple of months, overall economic growth last few years is unprecedented in history!!! It just doesn't appear as such because it's not a (dotcom) false paper enconomy!! As for jobs, no president will get you a job, if you want to work get your but up and go to it!!! :lmao:

[bottlebush]

Simply==Want a real time story about my 30+ yrs. of paying taxes. And NOW my job loss unemployment benefits have been terminated. So (I DON"T GET COUNTED IN THE STATISTICS ANYMORE)

[Psycho for Dinar]

You mean like Hienz???

[JHawk]

Actually lasagnabro, the F-4 Phantom was "state of the art" during the Vietnam War. The aircraft the president flew was an F-102 Delta Dagger and it was NOTORIOUS for killing it's pilots.

[lasagnabro]

thank you for the correction...I knew it was a pile of junk. As far as the economy goes, does anyone remember 9/11? Wall Street closed for how long? Airlines shut down for how long? You're talking extensive short term and long term damage to the U.S. economy. Regarding the new fad of the democrat hacks to rail against 'exporting jobs', those same folks can go right back to the clintong era where things like NAFTA were passed. Jobs were leaving the U.S. long before President Bush. Just like the intelligence services and military were gutted and defunded by clintong and john kerry. John Kerry's billionaire wife who by an odd plane crash, inherited a large company through her husband's untimely death. It's strangely familiar to another small plane crash where a woman inherited a Senate seat in a state she never lived in. Anyway, more than half of Heinz co's jobs are where? OVERSEAS! Want to know about joan kerry? Follow the money trail. :wave:

[KennyinOC]

Doesn't anybody remember when the stock market did a major correction? It was around March of 2000. Look at the long term charts. How long was Bush in office then? Oh that's right, he wasn't. The stock market is a market bell weather of what the economy will do soon. You see, Bush inherited the recession. He didn't created it. I asked my extreme liberal friend what policies that Clinton do that made the ecomony grow so much in the 90's? He couldn't name one.

[Mysterious11]

I get so tired of hearing how Bush has caused the economy to slide downhill. Yes the economy was well on its way there but 9-11 didn't help. People were scared to venture out and many quit their jobs out of fear of terrorist, causing many company's to downsize and as we know it sh*t rolls downhill. That is what is wrong with our society today. The majority are nothing but spoiled Americans that want everything handed to them and when things don't go exactly their way they find a cop-out and blame some one else. Terroist took down the world trade center, terrorist hit out military nerve center, terrorist killed innocent people. Do you see any of them offering to come to the U.S. and rebuild what they destroyed? We may be fighting a war in Iraq and Afghanistan and yes innocent people die, that is the nature of war but we are also rebuilding what we destroyed. Bush liberated 2 countries in 4 years, freeing millions of people. People can point their fingers at anyone they want, but Americans let these terrorist in our country, Americans let these people continue to terrorize them and for what so they can point the finger at a President. It takes the American people to come together and fight against terror and let these people know we are not going to put up with their sh*t. We have become prisoners in our own country, letting people that only dream of being free taking our freedoms away from us.

By the way when Bush asked Kerry:

Senator, if you knew then what you now know today would you have still voted for the U.S. to invade Iraq?

Kerry: YES

Bush: Well at least we agree on something I did 18 months ago.

Not an official quote, but what kind of contradiction is that? First Kerry is for the War and then against it and now still for the war. Please, if he can't make his mind up now what do you think he will be doing in office as Commander in Chief? He doesn't know his right from his left and he never will. :no:

[Psycho for Dinar]

Are they totally free yet? Is the war over yet? According to President Bush it was over a long time ago. He stood on the ship and told us all that the war was over. Are they truly liberated. I go to work every day and I don't have to worry about being blown up. Can it happed, I suppose it could. Now ask the Iraqi people if they can go out to work and not worry about being blown up. I am happy for the Iraqi people that they are better off today than they were before but we can not say they are really free yet.

I don't know but I am not a prisoner and my freedom has not been taken away. Life has changed since 9-11, But one thing no one can take is my freedom. I am still free to not vote for President Bush. I am still free to post my thoughts on this forum.

Also Keep in mind that the USA is not the only one being attacked by Terrorist. Places all around the world are being attacked. And on 9/11 the USA was not the only one attacked. We don't need to be the world police we need to start getting more countries involved and helping to rebuild and helping to help stop terrorism. That is were the UN needs to come in, the UN needs to take control instead of the US. And if the people that make up the UN don't want to do the job then they need to get the people in there that will.


At least you know where you stand with Bush. It would be hell for a parent to sit back and wait for Mr. Ketchup to decide whether or not to send troops. Today would be a yes vote, then wait for a week, I'm sure he would change his mind by then. (If momma money bags lets him!)


By the way, shouldn't you be working....slacker!!! :lmao:

[TwoTone]

DrRaf,
The war has not been declared to be over. Last May Bush announced the end of major combat operations. The war continues, its just not against a mobilized force.


TT

[RogerL]

Yes, the economy was on the way down, but by giving this big tax cut that mostly benefited the wealthy that made things worse. Sure I get extra money back but he can take it all back if he is going to fix the economy. President Bush was here yesterday and he commented on Kerry taxing the rich to assist in getting a trillion dollars or so to pay for his plan. Then he goes on and says he is not going to get all that money from the rich that he has to increase the tax for everyone. I say bring it on Kerry. I will pay what ever tax he wants as long as he can make things better like they were 4 years ago. What he need to do first when Kerry becomes president is remove the tax break resident Bush passed.How has cutting taxes made things worse? Nobody seems to be able to answer that one? There's always a positive correlation to economic growth and jobs when you cut taxes. Raising taxes costs jobs, so Kerry's not going to restore the economy. He will hurt it. Then it'll be up to ordinary Americans to overcome Kerry's tax increases to get the economy going again.

As an example, George HW Bush gave Clinton an economy that grew 4.5% in the fourth quarter. Clinton took over and passed a retroactive tax increase on everybody. The economy took a dive to a 0.7% growth rate in the first quarter of 1993 because of that tax increase. It took two years to pull out of that slowdown, when the economy started taking off in 1995, maybe not so coincidentally when gridlock hit Washington when the GOP took control of Congress.

Removing the tax cut on the bosses who hire people will not make them want to hire anyone. Small business creates 70% of the jobs in this economy and they are directly affected by Kerry's proposed tax increase. Economically, things are getting back to where they were four years ago, except this time, there isn't a false prosperity due to a stock market bubble.

Your case is what I am talking about. What some people don't realize is there are not the jobs out there there used to be. There are people who don't have a choice. This is why I wont vote for President Bush. I bet there are a lot of people that would like to get New Dinars but cant because they have no job, no savings left, unemployment running out. Its easy for the people that have it to say President Bush is doing a good job. I have a job making a decent buck. But I still cant vote for Bush. And I can't vote for anyone else but Kerry because a vote for any one else is a vote for President Bush.The unemployment rate is at 5.5%. Clinton's rate when he ran for re-election was 5.6%. Yet the press calls this a bad economy while they called Clinton's a great economy. Don't believe what the press is telling you. They hate Bush and will say anything to damage him. No jobs? The jobs climate is actually quite good. My company alone hired 300 people in one division per quarter. My office of 30 people hired 5 people this year. I'm in a very high-paying high-tech communications industry where the average job starts at $60,000. Sure that's anecdotal, but the statistics bear that out.

There will always be poor people. Government can do nothing to help that but enact policies that get out of the way of the economy. Tax cuts give more freedom to the people who actually make the economy work. Kerry's not going to raise the poor out of poverty and neither is Bush. They have to do it on their own. That's why welfare reform was so successful. It kept people from spending their entire lives on the government dole. Even Democrats admit that welfare reform worked.

Statistics bear out that average income has not declined at all in the 3.5 years Bush has been in office, so that stuff about only low paying jobs being created is nonsense. The latest numbers show that the average job being created now pays about $28,000/year with about 50% above that and 50% below that figure.

What makes you think it's a bad economy?

[Psycho for Dinar]

Boss man sees you been on this forum all day and you'll wish you had a job payin 28k per year. Now get to work slacker!!!!!!!!!! :lmao:

[Birdman]

For the people tho discredit Bush because he didnt go serve in vietnam:

Bush flew f4 fighters in the Air National Guard, and his mission was to take down Soviet bombers if they ever came into our airspace. How is that not important?

Thats like saying the goalie in soccer isnt important - all he does is sit back and protect the homebase against potential assault. The goalie isnt out their fighting with the other players, but that doesnt mean he isnt part of the team.

[Blake]

Does that funny analogy include goalies who disappear for 6 months?

[Birdman]

http://www.hobbsonline.blogspot.com/2003_05_01_hobbsonline_archive.html#93934189

Read please,
I used to carry around the 6 month myth, and call him AWOL, till i actually went beyond the rhetoric being fed into my brain by the media, and studied it myself. the page i posted above is a good starting point, if you indeed want to know.

[RogerL]

http://www.hobbsonline.blogspot.com/2003_05_01_hobbsonline_archive.html#93934189

Read please,
I used to carry around the 6 month myth, and call him AWOL, till i actually went beyond the rhetoric being fed into my brain by the media, and studied it myself. the page i posted above is a good starting point, if you indeed want to know.Very nice link! Learned a few things I hadn't heard before, such as the fact that he volunteered for a unit that was already actively engaged in combat.

[Mysterious11]

So you think $28,000 a year average is good. Tell that to the people that have a family of four to take care of and want to have a decent home and automobile. Especially to the 50% that fall below this level. Tell it to the person that has to work two jobs now because his higher paying job was lost and he needs to feed his family. Tell it to the person that has run out of unemployment and can't find a job. You don't have to tell me, tell them next time you see them that the economy is good.


I can't say $28,000 is good or bad because it depends on.....AGE, EDUCATION & EXPERIENCE. It's like the old saying that is passed around a lot on this forum "never invest in what you can't afford" It goes for the very same in day to day management of a household. If you can't afford to have kids then don't. If you can't afford that new car, don't buy it, and if you can't afford that 4 bedroom - 2 bath house don't sink yourself into it. Americans tend to live well beyond their means. Just because you make a lot of money doesn't mean you have to live a lavish lifestyle. While we all want fancy cars and nice homes and the ability to live comfortably day to day, it can well be achieved, even on a smaller income.
Prime example: MYSELF

I was 19 years old, just married and 9 months later came my daughter. My husband was 22. We didn't have a wedding we were married by JOP. So no gifts from friends and family. We lived in Japan at the time and moved to the U.S. 1 month before our daughter was born. We started out with nothing and I mean nothing. No car, house, furniture and etc......We started from scratch. My husband wanted everything new and to finance all of it. We both worked full time but I put us on a budget right away. We had the money, we had saved over $10,000 in 8 months. Not a lot but enough to get us by for a while. I went to yard sales and bought second hand furniture, I searched around storage units for items left by customers and found a washer and dryer in great condition that cost me a total $50. The only bills we paid were the basics (electricity, water, telephone and cable), we had a car note and insurance. No big deal and every payday we paid ourselves first. Yes it sucked having second hand items in our home, but I didn't care. I wasn't going to swamp us with bills just to have brand new items. The only thing brand new we bought was our car and that was an economical purchase of $11,000.00. No luxury car or SUV. Everytime I went to the store I asked myself do I need this or want this? If I didn't need it then it didn't get bought. We saved our money and yes we budgeted for a few years until we could afford what we wanted.

Where I am going with all of this you might ask yourself? Well it's called responsible finacial planning and management. Something the majority of Americans do not do. When I was 19 I was making a little over $12,000.00 a year and my husband making around $18,000.00 for a total of $20,000.00 a year. We made it just fine. Americans need to take responsibility for their spending. Like I said we all want the finer things in life don't get me wrong but we have to work to get them. Today I am debt free and drive a luxury car that is paid for and yes I have a great paying job making over $85,000.00 a year. It didn't take me 20 or even 10 years to get there but it took reponsibilty and patience. Whether the economy is good or bad anyone can make it work. For those that have lost their high paying jobs and are struggling to make ends meat. I am sorry and don't wish that on anyone, but they should have saved for a rainy day instead of living the lavish life. A president doesn't make you spend your money and neither does anyone else, you spend and live the way you do because you want to and no president is going to change the way you live, only you can change your life. There will always be bumps in the road and yes we may stumble and fall. It's how you pick yourself up and carry on that really matters. Just like it doesn't matter where you came from, it's where you're going and what you decide to do when you get there!

AS HUMANS WE ARE POOR HISTORIANS OF FACTS, BUT WE ARE SUPERB IN EMOTIONAL MEMORY. WE REEXPERIENCE THE FEELINGS CONNECTED WITH AN EVENT WITH EXTRODINARY EFFICIENCY!

[Mysterious11]

[QUOTE=DrRaf]So what you are saying is the person that already had a family of four and lost his job to a lower paying job should do what with his kids? Sell them, put them to work, what? What if they have more kids than that? I'm not saying noone can make it on $28,000 because I know a lot who are. But the reason I cant vote for Bush is because the quality of life for many Americans when down and not up. And don't say that they are naot working hard enough. I think having to work two jobs to get by is working harder than they need to. Were talking about someone that hade the American dream and it was taken from them. I bet if they took everything you worked for

For those that have lost their high paying jobs and are struggling to make ends meat. I am sorry and don't wish that on anyone, but they should have saved for a rainy day instead of living the lavish life. A president doesn't make you spend your money and neither does anyone else


Obviously you didn't read that part of my reply. I make great money now, but you know what I save 3/4 of of my paycheck each payday for that very reason- "There might be a day I loose my job and can't find another one." I save for that rainy day. Yes, I have a daughter and she is the first thing that comes to mind about saving money. It's not about anything else but her and that means fedding, clothing, shelter and an education. That is what I'm talking about, americans don't save a dime. I had it all once before just to have it taken away from me. I've been there and done that and I prepared for the future...nothing is Guaranteed. What is today might not be tomorrow but no one can take what is in my bank account. I spend my own money and I'm sorry that people that had those good jobs, didn't have enough sense to put away for their family's future. But what I'm not sorry about is.....that they felt they had to keep up with the Jones's. I don't care how poor or rich I am, my family comes first and if that means having less so one day my family can survive that is what I'll do. I have nothing to prove to anyone. I have what I have now, because I was financially responsible. When I was out of work for over six months I had plently of money in the bank, so I wasn't worrying about where my next meal was coming from or whether I was going to loose my home. Like I've said before, you're in control of your own finances not a president.

[Wolverine]

by unprecedented Do you mean that the rate of jobs lost in the least amount of time, and the lower paying jobs that they are replacing the lost jobs with. Tell this to the unemployed, tell this to the person that had a $25 an hour job and so he can feed his family he now needs to work two jobs for $10 an hour. :( I don't think it is a matter of people getting off their butts I think its a matter of sending jobs overseas instead of having good incentives for businesses to stay and employ our people.

The way to keep jobs from being sent overseas is to give the companies tax incentive to stay. Bush is doing that but then you lib's call him "for the rich".
Kerry, on the other hand, would tax them out of existence or at least to the border on their way out!!
It has been stated several times on this board and history will substantiate that most actions taken by any presidential administration in regards to overall economic situation take some time to become materially effectual SO if you are looking to blame a president for the present job situation, try begining with EIGHT LONG YEARS of CLINTONISM!!!!
Furthermore, I am sticking to my guns: yea being laid off sucks but if you've got good work ethic you'll survive(regardless of economy) and prosper for it!!! :happy26:

[Wolverine]

I work in the oil & gas industry so while the world was enjoying $8. a barrel oil and $1.25 per mcf natural gas and you and the dotcom bubble were sucking up $.75cents a gallon unleaded ,I was the hungry one but I didn't whine or blame my president!!! DON'T WORRY, BE HAPPY!! :happy26: :huge:

[Marilyn]

Hey Wolverine, where's your avatar ?
PM me when you're ready to set it up, they look so cool... :wave:

[RogerL]

But the reason I cant vote for Bush is because the quality of life for many Americans when down and not up.You seem to think that a president is a miracle worker and that he has full control over a $11 trillion economy. All a president can do is foster the conditions for a growing economy, which is what President Bush did. The rest is left up to the people.

With the triple whammies of the .dot com stock market bubble/corporate scandals, 9/11, and war, you ignore that and seem to think that the economy was just like any other normal time. It's not like Clinton left him a healthy economy and he mismanaged it into recession. No, he dug us mostly out of the mess that he inherited. It just doesn't seem fast enough for you even though the economy is far healthier now without the artificial stimulus of a stock market bubble and that more people are working now than ever before.

Would another president have been able to do better? Perhaps. But not likely. Firing Bush at this point would be like a corporation bringing in a new CEO after the previous one had left the company in tatters and firing the new one because his plan to dig out of the hole was going to take time because he still has some anchors tied to his back (war). If Clinton were still president, there's absolutely no guarantee that the economy would be better. It would likely be worse since he wouldn't have cut taxes, and most economists credit the tax cuts for keeping us from a deeper recession.

Unemployment is down almost a full percentage point from it's height at 6.3%, still historically very low, and continuing to fall. The trend continues, yet you want to change course from an improving economy. Raising taxes, as Kerry wants to do, is the surest way to reverse the improving trend.

Just use common sense. Place yourself, mentally, in the position of boss. The government raises taxes on you and your corporation. Does that make you want to jump for joy and run out and hire more people at higher wages?

Now if somebody cuts your taxes, you now have more money. Do you sock it away in the bank and sit on it. Maybe. Some possibly will. Or as boss, do you suddenly see some investment opportunities to use that additional money to make more? If you do, you'll likely want to hire some more people. Lower tax rates make previously unattractive investments more attractive since the return on investment is higher. That last statement is indisputable economic canon. That's why tax cuts are considered stimulus on an economy.

Now consider Kerry. In the same sentence in his convention speech, he says he wants to help small business while raising taxes on those making $200,000 or more. The problem with that is that most of those $200,000+ people ARE small business owners. You can't do both. So those small business owners are likely to retrench if their taxes go up, firing people or not hiring new ones because the return on investment is now lower.

If your goal is more jobs at higher pay, Kerry is NOT the way to go. If he really were JFK, I'd vote for him in a second since JFK was a supply-sider. He was the first one to show that cutting taxes stimulated growth and raised revenues back in the early 60's when he slashed the top rate from 93% to 70%. Reagan followed suit with two cuts from 70% to 50% and then from 50% to 28%. The economy of the 80's boomed with growth averaging 3.5% for the whole decade, including the recession years of 1980-82, creating over 22 million jobs.

[RogerL]

:no: The President is the one ultimately responsible. If he can't take the responsibility for the way things are, then He's fired for sure. Can't compare a Presidency with a corporation CEO because He has only 8 years max anyway. so if this was the end of his 8 years he would be out of there anyway. Unfortunately it is not and I am voting to fire him.He had his shot an blew it. :no:He is taking responsibility. He's taking the CREDIT! Economic conditions now are better than they were in 1996 when Clinton was re-elected in the midst of a "great economy." It's only your opinion that the economy is bad.

Bill Schneider, hard-core leftist chief political analyst for CNN, had a story last month where he said the greatest secret of 2004 was that the economy was actually pretty darned good. He did some research and found that the news media had completely blacked out all good economic news since January.

[Psycho for Dinar]

President Bush will still get a retirement check when he's fired. :happy64: When Kerry undoes President Bushes tax cut Guess what. President Bush will pay more taxes. And so will I.


Dude, that truck accidents left visions of ketchup bottles dancin in your head. Remember, Bush is good, Bush is good, Bush is good! :lmao:

[FAST1]

Oooh, the economy is bad! Ooh, the economy is bad and there are no jobs.... HAHAHAHAHA!

The economy is good, it will get better. Job growth is not what it could be-remember that we are waging a war on 2 major fronts and a few that are under the radar.

You have to grow the economy. If you want it to collapse-raise our taxes.

Go ahead and vote for a Dem., if you honestly think it will help us. We made it through Carter, we can handle Kerry. I was a child watching the Iranian hostage situation for over a year. There is your world respect.

I'm rambling....sorry.

[Wolverine]

President Bush will still get a retirement check when he's fired. :happy64: When Kerry undoes President Bushes tax cut Guess what. President Bush will pay more taxes. And so will I.

Your cheese has definitely slid off your cracker, dude!!! :lmao:

Aye, aye, captain! You’re sure to enjoy the flavorful fun of Cheez-It® SpongeBob SquarePants™ Baked Snack Crackers! Look in stores today!

[jethrobodine]

i know where the ex-pres(dr. raf's way) will take the extra taxes the dems will gut us with...offshore, where the rest of us with dinar are going to try and hide ours from the dems greedy- huge-government mits... hahaha :happy64:

[Collegeinvester1000]

The gvt could just make more social programs to help people out!

hmmm wait a minute, Many European nations with their socialist ways have mor unemployment then we do......

The Economy is its own monster and won't bend to the will of one man i.e. bush, clinton.

Tax cuts rule.

The End.