Has the sun finally set on the British Empire?

[Kash Munny]

Surrendering democratic sovereignty


By John Browne (johndbrowne@yahoo.com)
Sunday, March 16, 2008


The English Parliament voted last week against a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty, which effectively surrenders Great Britain's political sovereignty to the European Union (EU).

In so doing, it discarded the blood of legions of its courageous countrymen who fell in defense of their national independence over some thousand years. Oddly, it was barely mentioned in the American media.
The European Union, formally created in 1993 by the Treaty of Maastricht, is an embryonic superstate of 27 members with the supreme goal of ensuring that war never occurs again among European nations.
The founding fathers of the European Union blamed the ambitions of nationalistic politicians as the root cause of major wars that devastated Europe in the 20th century. Therefore, to achieve lasting peace, the EU grants enhanced powers to unelected bureaucrats at the expense of elected politicians.

For example, there are democratic elections to the European Parliament but the Parliament has, as yet, no effective power. In addition, nations are to be replaced by regions, each reporting directly to Brussels and bypassing their national governments. Great Britain is to be divided into 11 regions.
Over many years, the United Kingdom was "persuaded" of the advantages of full EU membership by means that can only be fairly described as clandestine. Until very recently, few people, even in Great Britain, realized what was happening.

Now that the EU is encroaching upon people's daily lives, anti-EU feelings have been aroused. Polls indicate that about two in three Brits oppose full membership in the European superstate and that about 80 percent want this constitutional issue of full membership to be decided by national referendum. Reflecting this overwhelming viewpoint, the three major parties (Labour, Conservative, Liberals) promised a national referendum in their 2005 election manifestos.

On March 5, however, the Labor and Liberal parties cynically voted against a referendum. The Conservative Party put down an amendment calling for a referendum but, of course, knew it would be defeated.
Worse still, the Conservatives "encouraged" their members to vote against a subsequent new clause, introduced by one of their colleagues, calling for the legal supremacy of the English Parliament.
Clearly, all three major parties covertly favor surrendering United Kingdom sovereignty to the European Union.
People are petitioning Queen Elizabeth to withhold her royal assent to the bill. The Internet is alive with accusations of treason on the part of British politicians who voted to give away their country; the government's answer is to propose changes to the treason laws.
Felt by many to be intrinsically corrupt, with its auditors refusing to sign its accounts for over a decade, the EU is now viewed as the first major experiment in "post-democracy."

How could such a situation develop without people knowing about it? What would possess national leaders to give away their country?
Part of the answer appears to be that the main British news organ, the BBC, is heavily funded by the EU. Another part is that former Prime Minister Tony Blair, who did so much to place Britain within the EU, is a favored candidate for the post of the EU's first highly paid president -- the George Washington of Europe.

Why should Americans care about what is going on in England or the EU? Several reasons exist but, basically, it involves two fundamental aspects of great importance to the United States and its future sovereignty.
First, Britain has a major oil-exporting economy and is the world's largest international financial center. As a nuclear power with a permanent seat on the U.N. Security Council, and at the center of the British Commonwealth, she also is America's most powerful, fervent and loyal ally.
Second, Americans should be wary of the erosion of democratic ideals and accountability as its own elected leaders surrender ever-increasing powers to the jurisdiction of unelected, unaccountable supra-national bodies such as the United Nations, the World Trade Organization and the International Court of Justice.

It is the people who are sovereign, not the government.
Communism's Karl Marx called for a classless, stateless society transcending national sovereignty in order to achieve world order. A world court, world trade council and world order may sound good. But where is the democratic accountability?
Our job as Americans is to ensure that we retain our individual freedoms and hold our government firmly to the task of maintaining our rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
We should remember Thomas Jefferson's admonition: "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." It is this vigilance that England now appears to be ignoring.
The British vote of last week should not go unnoticed by Americans. Freedom, individual rights and due process, once relinquished, are rarely ever regained.



http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/opinion/columnists/Browne/s_557509.html

[0ddball]

If the British people don't take their Gov to task over this, then they deserve what they get.
If the Gov tried this in the US , the only thing standing in their way would be the legions of armed Americans taking to the streets.
REMEMBER THAT when they try to take your 2nd amendment rights away.

brits can't even own a sword now.... Coincidence? I think not.

0ddball

[Dinarzilla]

First your firearms, then your freedoms. GB set the bar on gun control, other countries have already fallen, commonwealth mostly. You stood by and did nothing, first registration, then confiscation, and NOW you cry? Always remember this,"Fear the government that fears your guns". You now have no means to resist, not even your usless vote. Good Luck Limey!

[geowhiz]

Dont forget Britain is our "older sister". They tried to be an imperialist island-nation, got away with it for awhile, and had to retreat like we will eventually do in Iraq and Afghanistan. They are suffering through the same (open door) immigration problems we are undergoing. They have the same rancor for current military policies that we have. They have overpaid whiney sports and entertainment stars. They have "black, white and brown" issues.

Look to them to figure out where the United States is going.

[removed account per user]

Dont forget Britain is our "older sister". They tried to be an imperialist island-nation, got away with it for awhile, and had to retreat like we will eventually do in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Positively dripping with liberal angst this afternoon. :giggle:

[geowhiz]

Positively dripping with liberal angst this afternoon. :giggle:


Actually according to D.N.M's poll I swing from radical to neoconservative politically. :rock: Im a mover and a shaker.

[removed account per user]

Actually according to D.N.M's poll I swing from radical to neoconservative politically. :rock:

Yeah, and I'm a self-hating liberal... :wave:

[geowhiz]

Yeah, and I'm a self-hating liberal... :wave:


Listening to Neil Sedaka's song.. "Bad Blood" as we speak

:emo:

[Dinarzilla]

Geowhiz, GB's immigration "problem" stems from their failed Colonialism, all these so-called immigrants are in fact the Queens' own subjects!!! Not only have the colonial days gone by, the colonies' inhabitants are comming home!

[quickhaul]

Surrendering democratic sovereignty


By John Browne (johndbrowne@yahoo.com)
Sunday, March 16, 2008


The English Parliament voted last week against a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty, which effectively surrenders Great Britain's political sovereignty to the European Union (EU).

In so doing, it discarded the blood of legions of its courageous countrymen who fell in defense of their national independence over some thousand years. Oddly, it was barely mentioned in the American media.
The European Union, formally created in 1993 by the Treaty of Maastricht, is an embryonic superstate of 27 members with the supreme goal of ensuring that war never occurs again among European nations.
The founding fathers of the European Union blamed the ambitions of nationalistic politicians as the root cause of major wars that devastated Europe in the 20th century. Therefore, to achieve lasting peace, the EU grants enhanced powers to unelected bureaucrats at the expense of elected politicians.

For example, there are democratic elections to the European Parliament but the Parliament has, as yet, no effective power. In addition, nations are to be replaced by regions, each reporting directly to Brussels and bypassing their national governments. Great Britain is to be divided into 11 regions.
Over many years, the United Kingdom was "persuaded" of the advantages of full EU membership by means that can only be fairly described as clandestine. Until very recently, few people, even in Great Britain, realized what was happening.

Now that the EU is encroaching upon people's daily lives, anti-EU feelings have been aroused. Polls indicate that about two in three Brits oppose full membership in the European superstate and that about 80 percent want this constitutional issue of full membership to be decided by national referendum. Reflecting this overwhelming viewpoint, the three major parties (Labour, Conservative, Liberals) promised a national referendum in their 2005 election manifestos.

On March 5, however, the Labor and Liberal parties cynically voted against a referendum. The Conservative Party put down an amendment calling for a referendum but, of course, knew it would be defeated.
Worse still, the Conservatives "encouraged" their members to vote against a subsequent new clause, introduced by one of their colleagues, calling for the legal supremacy of the English Parliament.
Clearly, all three major parties covertly favor surrendering United Kingdom sovereignty to the European Union.
People are petitioning Queen Elizabeth to withhold her royal assent to the bill. The Internet is alive with accusations of treason on the part of British politicians who voted to give away their country; the government's answer is to propose changes to the treason laws.
Felt by many to be intrinsically corrupt, with its auditors refusing to sign its accounts for over a decade, the EU is now viewed as the first major experiment in "post-democracy."

How could such a situation develop without people knowing about it? What would possess national leaders to give away their country?
Part of the answer appears to be that the main British news organ, the BBC, is heavily funded by the EU. Another part is that former Prime Minister Tony Blair, who did so much to place Britain within the EU, is a favored candidate for the post of the EU's first highly paid president -- the George Washington of Europe.

Why should Americans care about what is going on in England or the EU? Several reasons exist but, basically, it involves two fundamental aspects of great importance to the United States and its future sovereignty.
First, Britain has a major oil-exporting economy and is the world's largest international financial center. As a nuclear power with a permanent seat on the U.N. Security Council, and at the center of the British Commonwealth, she also is America's most powerful, fervent and loyal ally.
Second, Americans should be wary of the erosion of democratic ideals and accountability as its own elected leaders surrender ever-increasing powers to the jurisdiction of unelected, unaccountable supra-national bodies such as the United Nations, the World Trade Organization and the International Court of Justice.

It is the people who are sovereign, not the government.
Communism's Karl Marx called for a classless, stateless society transcending national sovereignty in order to achieve world order. A world court, world trade council and world order may sound good. But where is the democratic accountability?
Our job as Americans is to ensure that we retain our individual freedoms and hold our government firmly to the task of maintaining our rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
We should remember Thomas Jefferson's admonition: "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." It is this vigilance that England now appears to be ignoring.
The British vote of last week should not go unnoticed by Americans. Freedom, individual rights and due process, once relinquished, are rarely ever regained.



http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/opinion/columnists/Browne/s_557509.html
Sad, but there are those here in America that would do the same to this great country ! God Bless America !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Attaboy]

Odd that some are predicting a North American Union to be in place here in 2010. Canada, Mexico and USA. Is there a tie between this event and events unfolding in the US? Our media is not reporting the NAU activity by our politicians.

[VonWeeden]

Yeah, and I'm a self-hating liberal... :wave:

Never took you for a liberal.....:giggle:

As far as Britian surrendering democratic sovereignty..... never. Its one thing to let people believe they are in control. Its another to know who is in control.

The EU is a grand puppet. A puppet to all the nations that comprise of the EU....a puppet to counter the strength of America. All nations have always maintained their sovereignty, even when on the verge of collapse. However, these nations have decided to unite against a common threat... perceived US imperialism. But in reality, they are puppets to those who do business with them....

There is an attempt for a universal governing body...a real world order. While they have little power now, their influence has been growing and will continue to grow, as people have become disallusioned by "American imperialism". They will act under the guise that they are acting in the best interests of their constituents.

But this will lead to one of those great wars we all read about in the history books...you know, the kind that tumbles Superpowers.

[sogrgirl]

First your firearms, then your freedoms. GB set the bar on gun control, other countries have already fallen, commonwealth mostly. You stood by and did nothing, first registration, then confiscation, and NOW you cry? Always remember this,"Fear the government that fears your guns". You now have no means to resist, not even your usless vote. Good Luck Limey!

first GB and then the US.
this is already happening here. what do you suggest we do? what do you think the Brits should have done??

give me a viable plan to avoid this happening here and you can count me in.

[Dinarzilla]

first GB and then the US.
this is already happening here. what do you suggest we do? what do you think the Brits should have done??

give me a viable plan to avoid this happening here and you can count me in.


Resist, resist, vote Republican, kill Liberals wherever you find them.

[sogrgirl]

Resist, resist, vote Republican, kill Liberals wherever you find them.
:rofl: :rofl: well, okay then, that's great! i already do that!!!! :party:
been my philosophy for years:giggle:
hopefully that will be enough

[Luminous]

Just two words for you all Esoteric Agenda. Google or Youtube it!

[tesla]

Resist, resist, vote Republican, kill Liberals wherever you find them.

Its not that easy, both parties have the same agenda. We are being sucked into this whole UN one world thing also. Bush and Clinton are both responsible (all presidents for the last 100 years), we need a shake up of the entire system, from top to bottom.

People need to wake up and start learning about the real history of our country, secret societies (free masons etc.), what their agendas are, and how this is all being done through monetary system control, monopoly capitalism, and free trade BS.

This is all about power, control and money by a small group of Elitists.

The only way to stop this is for an awakening of the country, we all need to make our voices heard, we need to stand up for the Constitution and our Bill of Rights whenever and wherever needed, we should also kick out and disband all secret societies in our country, there is no need to have them in a truly open and free society.

[tesla]

Watch these if you get a chance: (there's plenty more on google)

History of Freemasonry

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3923632392892449905

The Light Behind Masonry

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2748614967389038944

[sogrgirl]

Its not that easy, both parties have the same agenda. We are being sucked into this whole UN one world thing also. Bush and Clinton are both responsible (all presidents for the last 100 years), we need a shake up of the entire system, from top to bottom....

This is all about power, control and money by a small group of Elitists.

The only way to stop this is for an awakening of the country, we all need to make our voices heard, we need to stand up for the Constitution and our Bill of Rights whenever and wherever needed, we should also kick out and disband all secret societies in our country, there is no need to have them in a truly open and free society.

you're right, it isn't that easy. i am not sure that it is even possible, at least not by voting, or by revolting against the system by taking up arms... those options will no longer work.
have you seen this video? http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9050474362583451279

it's long, but it is excellent. i like the solution at the end of the film.

i think that the entire system will collapse and then we will be left to pick up the pieces. perhaps then there will be a chance to rebuild it right.

i feel for woodrow wilson. what a legacy to leave.

[tesla]

you're right, it isn't that easy. i am not sure that it is even possible, at least not by voting, or by revolting against the system by taking up arms... those options will no longer work.
have you seen this video? http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9050474362583451279

it's long, but it is excellent. i like the solution at the end of the film.

i think that the entire system will collapse and then we will be left to pick up the pieces. perhaps then there will be a chance to rebuild it right.

i feel for woodrow wilson. what a legacy to leave.

Yes, thank you, I have seen that video. "Money as debt" gives you a nice overall understanding of how our current monetary system is used as a wealth transfering mechanism......money is supposed to have a unchangeable constant value, and is supposed to be used as an exchange for goods and services, this current system allows for real wealth and assets (loans with liened property and assets) to transfer from people and governments to private banks to central banks, and ultimately to the world bank.

Imagine if we changed values in mathematics every day, or the value of how long an inch or a foot is everyday, it would be impossible to carry out business, but weve allowed these people to literally change and manipulate the value of our currencies everyday, its the ultimate power. If you have the power to print and issue money, and also value that money against all other on the planet, you can eventually buy and own the world. You can control all industries, societies, and drive future developement any way you want.:wave:

[TheDude]

Naw....I don't believe the sun will ever set on the British empire....not as long as Scotsmen and Welshmen are still roaming the planet. I've worked with a lot of these guys and they will take up arms and retake their country, especially if they've had a few drams of whiskey!

[Goober]

The Dude, just where in Heck will these stout-hearted men get their arms?

[baz]

[QUOTE=Dinarzilla;599921]First your firearms, then your freedoms. GB set the bar on gun control, other countries have already fallen, commonwealth mostly. You stood by and did nothing, first registration, then confiscation, and NOW you cry? Always remember this,"Fear the government that fears your guns". You now have no means to resist, not even your usless vote. Good Luck Limey![/QUOT

What are you dopey or what?.

First your firearms. We never did have guns on the scale you folk do. We never have carried guns like you do. We never have had cops carry guns before all these terror threats. We never could legally carry a uncovered gun in the street. I still have guns, i still can use them, i still can own them, on a limit scale granted, and this is thanks to the two idiots who did all the killing of kids and adults. We allways have had to register our guns when bought, and thats no bad thing is it?, the new license we had to fill in was no problem either...if your not a nutter that is.

Then your freedoms. We have the best freedoms in the world even now, and thats from a Brit person who hates this country because of the way its changed for the worse in a short time....but we still have freedoms like you could only wish for , but then you would have to live here to really know and understand about these things.

GB set the bar on gun control. Whose? yours hasent been affected by what we have done and never will be. Most of Europe's cops carry guns, some of ours do now, but on the whole we think if you ALLWAYS carry a gun the crims ALLWAYS will as well. Another discussion their i think.
Your gun ownership is written in your laws, ours never was or has been.

Stood by and did nothing. We who had guns at the time of the bans joined together to protest, we did everything we could do and more, sadly we had to settle for 50/50, could have lost the lot though.

Means to resist. I take it this means then that when you dont like the government of the day because you have guns you can resist this person taking office.....if it dont, it sure as hell sounds like this....I think even now with our "Crap laws" and loss of "freedoms" we have come a bit further then "Storming Parliment" with every gun/pitch fork and hammer we can muster.

Useless vote, now you really are talking sense, and i agree totally...Yank.

[baz]

Geowhiz, GB's immigration "problem" stems from their failed Colonialism, all these so-called immigrants are in fact the Queens' own subjects!!! Not only have the colonial days gone by, the colonies' inhabitants are comming home!


ER! sorry boss but you got that one wrong as well, most and i mean millions of the immigrants of late are from Eastern Europe, with a good splash from countries we hadent even heard of, and a fair mixture from rubbished countrys that we have taken in because in their wisdom our leaders felt sorry for them and back home these folk got killed for reading the local newspaper.

BUT looking on the BRIGHT side of life, we here in good old supressed Blighty have to be thankfull we aint joined to MEXICO.

[TheDude]

The Dude, just where in Heck will these stout-hearted men get their arms?

They will do like mankind has done in the past. When that yoke around your neck is so tight you can no longer stand it....you will beg, borrow or steal to get the weapons required to get it off your neck. I believe,Eventually, the Brits will use their political skills to regain their country.

[Spiderman]

Its not that easy, both parties have the same agenda. We are being sucked into this whole UN one world thing also. Bush and Clinton are both responsible (all presidents for the last 100 years), we need a shake up of the entire system, from top to bottom.

People need to wake up and start learning about the real history of our country, secret societies (free masons etc.), what their agendas are, and how this is all being done through monetary system control, monopoly capitalism, and free trade BS.

This is all about power, control and money by a small group of Elitists.

The only way to stop this is for an awakening of the country, we all need to make our voices heard, we need to stand up for the Constitution and our Bill of Rights whenever and wherever needed, we should also kick out and disband all secret societies in our country, there is no need to have them in a truly open and free society.

Tesla, these guys don't want to be informed. They are crabs in a bucket. They are more concerned with being right and keeping up this stupid idealogical war between Liberals and Conservatives, Shiite and Sunni, black and white, bloods and crips... Only folks that know how to stick together are Jews. They stick together no matter what staying under the radar until everyone else falls by the wayside with self-destructive behavior.

[baz]

They will do like mankind has done in the past. When that yoke around your neck is so tight you can no longer stand it....you will beg, borrow or steal to get the weapons required to get it off your neck. I believe,Eventually, the Brits will use their political skills to regain their country.

I really wish that were true Dude but its gone to far down the pan now to fix, we got brown without even voting him in, even though he said their would be a vote, yet another lie, if and when the Conservatives ever get in, hold me to it but they will be saying "Sorry guys cant do any good yet, labour have really left us in a big mess" .

Another thing which is happening here now, today, dont know all the facts yet, but it seems that labour are now trying to "Help" us all out, because of the mess with bad debt, the credit problem, zero house sales, increases in everything we buy...thanks a bunch labour, 85% of the mess is your doing.

Our biggest problem is yet to rear its ugly head, and thats next year when business's have to file tax returns or will it be re-funds of tax, then the whats it will hit the fan, but yet again the betting is brown will borrow more money from somewhere, or wait untill gold drops to its lowest and sell of the rest, and then tell us all we weathered the storm because of his fine fiscal judgements over the past years.

[TheDude]

They will do like mankind has done in the past. When that yoke around your neck is so tight you can no longer stand it....you will beg, borrow or steal to get the weapons required to get it off your neck. I believe,Eventually, the Brits will use their political skills to regain their country.

I really wish that were true Dude but its gone to far down the pan now to fix, we got brown without even voting him in, even though he said their would be a vote, yet another lie, if and when the Conservatives ever get in, hold me to it but they will be saying "Sorry guys cant do any good yet, labour have really left us in a big mess" .

Another thing which is happening here now, today, dont know all the facts yet, but it seems that labour are now trying to "Help" us all out, because of the mess with bad debt, the credit problem, zero house sales, increases in everything we buy...thanks a bunch labour, 85% of the mess is your doing.

Our biggest problem is yet to rear its ugly head, and thats next year when business's have to file tax returns or will it be re-funds of tax, then the whats it will hit the fan, but yet again the betting is brown will borrow more money from somewhere, or wait untill gold drops to its lowest and sell of the rest, and then tell us all we weathered the storm because of his fine fiscal judgements over the past years.

I believe the UK and US have the same problem....too much Government control.
In the US, our best hope is normally the ballot box but all political parties are stamped out with the same cookie cutter. The US Government is directed, by our constitution, to do what's best for "we the people". That process was busted many years ago. Our politicians are too entrenched in greed for personal reasons.
I believe we're approaching a taxpayer revolt in the US....if that doesn't happen....do we go for the guns? Our founding fathers gave us the right to keep and bear arms to protect ourselves from oppressive Governments. Do we use that right....only time will tell.

[removed account per user]

Tesla, these guys don't want to be informed. They are crabs in a bucket. They are more concerned with being right and keeping up this stupid idealogical war between Liberals and Conservatives, Shiite and Sunni, black and white, bloods and crips... Only folks that know how to stick together are Jews. They stick together no matter what staying under the radar until everyone else falls by the wayside with self-destructive behavior.

You puppets pump the same crackpot NWO conspiracy theories over and over, hijacking countless threads. Then you talk down to people who don't listen. Is it any wonder you are being ignored? :clapping:

[shellbell]

Its not that easy, both parties have the same agenda. We are being sucked into this whole UN one world thing also. Bush and Clinton are both responsible (all presidents for the last 100 years), we need a shake up of the entire system, from top to bottom.

People need to wake up and start learning about the real history of our country, secret societies (free masons etc.), what their agendas are, and how this is all being done through monetary system control, monopoly capitalism, and free trade BS.

This is all about power, control and money by a small group of Elitists.

The only way to stop this is for an awakening of the country, we all need to make our voices heard, we need to stand up for the Constitution and our Bill of Rights whenever and wherever needed, we should also kick out and disband all secret societies in our country, there is no need to have them in a truly open and free society.

I am not sure who is behind the agenda for a one world government. It could possibly be an elite group. I do not dwell on that too much. I do know that the UN has planned this all along. The whole reason they were even established was to form United Nations. I am not sure the reason behind it, and we can all speculate, but it is a plan that they have. Whether they pull it off, remains to be seen.

[removed account per user]

I am not sure who is behind the agenda for a one world government. It could possibly be an elite group.


That's what makes conspiracy theories so fun. Anyone can invent whatever boogeyman they feel like, and no one can DISPROVE it, because the burden of proof is reversed!

So, for example, I can say Hulk Hogan is behind the NWO, and you cannot prove that he isn't! Afterall, WE DONT KNOW FOR SURE....

LOL

http://www.catsandbeer.com/uploads/2007/11/nwo1en.jpg

[Spiderman]

You puppets pump the same crackpot NWO conspiracy theories over and over, hijacking countless threads. Then you talk down to people who don't listen. Is it any wonder you are being ignored? :clapping:

I just look for one response from you Wark and my day is made. One day we will crack through that tough exterior...or should I say hard head.:rofl:

[Kash Munny]

Baz,

Thank you for your input. I was hoping for a larger response from our friends across the pond but you have shed some light on this topic.

Cheers

[removed account per user]

I just look for one response from you Wark and my day is made. One day we will crack through that tough exterior...or should I say hard head.:rofl:

Better a hard head than a mind that is so mushy and malleable that it can be shaped by the weakest of ideas... :muscle:

[shellbell]

Better a hard head than a mind that is so mushy and malleable that it can be shaped by the weakest of ideas... :muscle:

One of these days you will move over to the dark side Luke Skywalker!! You will be receiving your SSI with Ameros in the NAU in the New World Order. LOL:rofl:

[removed account per user]

One of these days you will move over to the dark side Luke Skywalker!! You will be receiving your SSI with Ameros in the NAU in the New World Order. LOL:rofl:


No, actually I won't. I'll fight to the death to ensure that your twisted vision for the future never exists outside of the vandalized bathroom walls of internet forums. :yes:

[baz]

Baz,

Thank you for your input. I was hoping for a larger response from our friends across the pond but you have shed some light on this topic.

Cheers

Thank you, it seems a lot of Brits have gone from here, why I dont know, perhaps they are fed up with nothing much happening, you know instant millions and all. Me this thing is still in with my time frame....but then i am a brick short of a load....so that helps.:wink: