Election Date Set

[bryanhenry]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/...ain/index.html

[robert_dinaro]

election in 70 days......how realistic is that???, will there be troop movement after election????

[Lux]

election in 70 days......how realistic is that???, will there be troop movement after election????

This report states that we plan on increasing troops by delaying the return of several thousand soldiers until the elections are held.

http://www.dailybreeze.com/news/nati...s/1207131.html

[Weston]

sounds good to me, the 60day Marshall Law orwhatever they passed will be lifted 2/3weeks before. NOW to get those guys out of Mosul

[dinargonecrazy]

they need to weed out terrorrists, not iraqi joe

[Dinardreams]

By "Those guys" do you mean the Iraqi people? I hope you are aware that its the regular joe Iraqi who is fighting for his hometown...Not some "rogue" elements...The media tries its best to fool people....

While I understand someone`s desire to fight for his/her hometown.Did you ever stop to think that the longer there is an insurgency, the longer Us and Coalition forces will be in Iraq.By fighting for their hometown as you say I believe it has the opposite effect. Unless those that are fighting for their home town are those that don`t want a peaceful iraq, those that know well that if the country is pacified and Iraqis are in control of securing their homeland, they can`t blame the Us anymore as an excuse for criminal activity.Look, the Us is not as evil as some in the middle east may think.I would like to think that most Iraqis feel that the faster they get elections done and the faster their country is secure and there is law and order, the faster the US forces will leave....

Peace.... :)

[bert]

i wish are guys could come home today,but its not going to happen for a long time--years.they have no army,air force,i think we gave them 2 or 3 planes total.they have no real weapons at all to defend themself with.hell we cant even get them to stay and fill the police stations.they cant defend themselfs against there own people,let alone another country.i hit on moving back the elections 2 weeks,and missed the debt by5%,saying 85%.but i hope iam dead wrong on this.another reason for the dinar to open strong.what would happen to the banking system if they came out at a low price?there are just a few out there like us,but what would happen if the whole world thought there currency was under valued,and everyone started to bye it world wide?.ugly.anyone have an idea how the US is going to help allawi win the election without opening up the dinar before the election?

[Weston]

By "Those guys" do you mean the Iraqi people? I hope you are aware that its the regular joe Iraqi who is fighting for his hometown...Not some "rogue" elements...The media tries its best to fool people....

THOSE GUYS are the ANTI Government Kind (Terrorist/Sunnis the ones slowly down the Governments movement)... Sure they want Iraq to be free or Whatever they want but its not helping them on the world view...WHO wants to invest Billions Dollars into a country where People are getting shot and Police stations are getting blown up

[robert_dinaro]

A group of national, political and religious groups in Iraq, including the Association of Muslim Scholars, have decided to boycott the elections due to be held early next year.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exer...D72ACF671C.htm

11/19/2004: Iraq's deputy prime minister has indicated for the first time that the much-heralded elections due in January could be derailed by the country's violent insurgency. 47 Iraqi political parties and related bodies have decided to boycott the election saying the election results are a foregone conclusion, with rewards already lined up for the parties collaborating with the occupation. The parties that have said they will boycott the election include not just Sunni Islamist ones, but others like the National Arab Current, the Iraqi-Turkoman Front, the Democratic Christian Party and the communist People’s Union party, as well as Shi'a parties. The Association of Muslim Scholars (AMS) has warned that the situation in Falluja will directly affect the elections and even delay the process.
It is hard to see how any election can seen by Iraqis as "free and fair" when the media is now being heavily censored and leaders of even nonviolent opposition groups are being intimidated and arrested.

http://www.indybay.org/archives/arch...category_id=48

The Risks of an Iraq Election

There's little doubt that an election can be held in Iraq by the January deadline agreed by the Bush administration and Iraq's interim government. The question is whether, under the prevailing security circumstances, a credible poll can be conducted. That's because the purpose of holding an election now is to secure the all-important legitimacy of a popular mandate for a new government to stabilize Iraq. By that measure, an election whose credibility is questioned by substantial sections of the Iraqi population and the international community could do more harm than good. And the prospect of the January deadline producing a flawed election has led observers from UN Secretary General Kofi Annan and Jordan's Crown Prince Abdullah to Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry to urge a postponement. But the flip-side of the coin may be equally dangerous: the consequences of not holding the election on schedule could add the prospect of massive Shiite unrest to the security challenge posed by multiple insurgencies, and leave the Allawi government in a legal and political limbo in which the basis of its tenure becomes increasingly open to question. More importantly, even, postponement would be hailed as an important victory by the insurgents, and give them the confidence and incentive to escalate their challenge.

http://www.time.com/time/world/artic...702949,00.html

Voter registration is off to a rocky start, though, as dozens of Iraqi political parties and groups have vowed to boycott what they call unfair and illegitimate elections.

Critics say planned elections pose a grave risk to the future of Iraq

Imam Khalesi University, the Association of Muslim Scholars (AMS), the National Trend Movemen, the Iraqi National Foundational Conference, Iraqi Turkomen Front, and the Christian Democratic Party were among some 46 parties that declared a boycott of the vote.

The AMS said in a statement that the elections posed a grave risk to the future of Iraq as it would undermine Iraq's sovereignty and territorial integrity.

Ahmad Abd al-Ghafur al-Samarrai, a member of the AMS, told Aljazeera: "The AMS, the Iraqi National Foundational Conference and other groups describe the forthcoming elections under US occupation as a farce and that it will not be truly representative neither will it express the ambitions of the Iraqi people

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exer...8A9AFB68AE.htm

Several hundred Kurds issued a statement campaigning for the boycott of the upcoming Iraqi election. The statement was posted on a number of Kurdish news websites, including Kurdistannet.net and Peyamner.com.

The statement in Kurdish reads as follows:

"We, as part of the Kurdish people in the diasopora, feel it is our duty to take a stance on the upcoming Iraqi elections.

We shall not take part in the election while the fate of the Kurdish provinces such as Khanaqeen, Jangar, Tuzkhurmantu, Kifry, Jalawla, Mandaly and all other Kurdish areas [outside the Kurdish administration], are unclear.

http://www.occupationwatch.org/article.php?id=7580

[Lux]

I believe the elections will go on. The clear message is that car bombs and violence aren't the answer. Like someone said, "You want the US to stay, keep the violence up". I know it's not that easy, but it is that's simple.

Barely 2/3 of eligible Americans vote and less than 3/4 even register to vote. Half of all minorities vote which is a boycott in itself. "You can take a man to democracy, but you can make him vote".

I don't think the elections in themselves will solve immediate problems, but it will be the next step towards establishing a government. At some point in time, these groups will realize that "a voice" is better than none. Legitimacy will be established by neighboring countries and the world, not simply a minority within.

Looks like a hard road ahead either way.

[JeffP]

Just to give you some idea of how many political parties
registered so far.
156 count `em :rolleye03

UPDATE: I am now understanding 198 parties/162 approved 11.22

-------

156 listed as of 11.24

Assembly of Independent Democrats.
The Assembly For Iraq.
Islamic Da'wa Party.
Islamic Virtue Party.
Centrist Assembly Party.
Islamic Work Organization.
Islamic Al-Mihrab martyr Institution.
Iraqi Islamic Party.
Badr Organization.
Turkmen Elee Party.
Iraqi Turkmen National Party.
Democratic National Party.
Supreme Council of Islamic Revolution In Iraq.
Independent Turkmen Party.
Democratic Assembly of Iraqi Tribes.
Assembly of Iraqi National Unity.
Iraqi Assembly for Democracy.
Iraqi Communist Party.
Islamic Union of Iraqi Turkmen.
Assembly of Justice and Equality.
Islamic Union of Philea Iraqi Kurds.
Prince Ahmed Tah Ahmed Yaseen Mahmood.
National Assyrian Party.
Islamic Movement of Iraqi Turkmen.
Movement of Iraqi Democrats.
Free Democratic Country Party.
Iraqi National Assembly.
Party of Allah (Hizbella) in Iraq.
Justice and Democratic Advancement Party.
Loyal Iraqis Society.
Islamic Philee Assembly in Iraq.
Democratic Iraq Assembly.
Islamic Heralds Party.
Union Party.
Turkmen Loyal Movement.
Kurdish Democratic Solution Party.
Amer Ali Hussein Owaid Al-Murshidi.
Turkmen National Movement.
Iraqi Turkmen Justice Party.
Ali Mua'yad Hussein Al-Qaisi.
Democratic Qasimi Assembly.
Free Philee Kurds Organization.
Iraqi Republican Assembly.
Democratic Islamic Streamline.
Iraqi Lords Council.
Democratic National Coalition.
National Baith-Nahrain Union.
Iraq Allah Party (Hizbella).
Free Republicans Party.
Democratic Establishment Party.
Free Civil Officers Movement.
Islamic Da'wa Movement.
Assembly of Future Iraq.
Iraqi Electors Assembly.
Assembly of Independents in Wasit.
Arabic Socialist Movement.
Liberation and Reconciliation Front.
Assyrian Democratic Movement.
Hasan Jawad Amana.
Ali Mahsoon Husseini Bander Al-Fitlawi.
Mush'al Awad Al-Sari.
Muhsin Habib Shamkhi Al-Ka'bi.
Hamza Mohammed Jasim Ja'far Al-Aqabi.
Banner of Independents.
loyalty to Najaf.
National Front For Iraq's Unity.
Ali Abd Hamza Al-Timimi.
Abd Al-Sattar Al-Qat' Al-Abodi.
Independent Babylon Society.
Ali Muslim Jar Allah Ali Al-Bithani.
Movement of Independent Syriac Assembly.
The Prophet Institution.
Ibrahim Khalil Sa'eed Al-Esawi.
Engineer Sheik Khalifa Al-Haj Saddam Shabib Al-Bithani.
Mohammed Rashad Al-Fadl.
Ali Talal Ali.
Democratic National Coalition.
Grandsons of Twenties Revolution Assembly.
Constitutional royalty.
Ibrahim Zayon Mohammed Al-Mosawi.
Iraqi National Conciliation Movement.
Iraqi Turkmen Lords and Tribes League.
First Democratic National Party.
Iraqi National Conference Party.
Iraqi National Liberation Movement.
Abd Al-Amir Obis Al-Sabah.
Assembly of Missan Independent Sons.
Engineer Mosa Muhsin Idris Al-Yasiri.
Husseini Thought Forum.
Imam Ali Society.
Iraqi National Rescue Party.
Islamic Reconciliation Movement.
National Brotherhood Movement.
Independent Iraqi Assembly For Liberation.
Assembly of Independent Iraqi Statement.
Chaldean National Conference.
Kurdistani National Union.
Independent Islamic National Assembly.
Christian Democratic Party.
Nation Party.
Kurdistan Tikishani Zahma Party.
National League of Leaders and Sheiks of Iraqi Tribes.
Al-Ridha Center For Culture and Guidance.
Malik Abd Al-Hussien Ghafoori.
Muthana Fadhil Mohammed Ibrahim.
Hikmet Dawood Hakim.
Ibrahim Shafik Khalil Ibrahim Al-Basri.
Islamic Conference of Iraqi Tribes.
Independent National Elites and Cadres.
Conference of United Democratic Iraq.
Independent Islamic League.
Assembly of Al-Furat Al-Awsat.
Free Caller Assembly.
Sheik Sa’doon Ghulam Ali Abd Al-Karim Al-Lami.
Kurdistani National Stream.
Humanitarian Society For Retirees.
Iraqi National Movement.
Kurdistani Conservative Party.
Independent Iraqi Front.
Falah Hasan Abd Al-Amir Al-‘Arithi.
Ahmed Hasan Mahmood.
Kurdistani Islamic Movement - Iraq.
Iraqis.
National Assembly of Centrist Stream.
Party of Democratic Iraqi Nation.
Najat Fadhil Abbas
.Engineer Baqir Al-Baqir.
United National Coalition.
Independents List.
Assyrian National Assembly.
Independent League For Democracy Care.
Independent Advanced National Front.
Irsal Ghalaf Hassoon Al-Karawi.
Public Union For Iraqi Youth.
Independent Brothers
Iraqi National Brotherhood Party.
Nizar Talib Abd Al-Kareem.
Monathil Jasim Hasan Al-Allaf.
Movement of Democratic Society.
Front of Sha'ban Iraq Uprising in 1991.
Al-Sayed Kathim Jasim Ali Al-Fathili Al-Husseini.
Ghalib Muhsin Abd Hussein Al-Sabahi
Movement of New Iraq.
Mohammed Daham Nazal.
Independent Nationalists.
Elites In Diyala.
National Assembly.
Loyalty Assembly For Iraq.
Democratic Joint Work Front.
Democratic Iraqi People Party.
Democratic National Advancement Party.
Iraq Pro-Democracy Party led by Blogger Mohammed Fadhil.
Dr. Abd Jasim Al-Sa'dee.
Sha'ban Uprising League.
Kurds Independents List.

JeffP

[Lux]

Just to give you some idea of how many political parties
registered so far.
56 count `em :rolleye03



Assembly of Independent Democrats.
The Assembly For Iraq.
Islamic Da'wa Party.
Islamic Virtue Party.
Centrist Assembly Party.
Islamic Work Organization.
Islamic Al-Mihrab martyr Institution.
Iraqi Islamic Party.
Badr Organization.
Turkmen Elee Party.
Iraqi Turkmen National Party.
Democratic National Party.
Supreme Council of Islamic Revolution In Iraq.
Independent Turkmen Party.
Democratic Assembly of Iraqi Tribes.
Assembly of Iraqi National Unity.
Iraqi Assembly for Democracy.
Iraqi Communist Party.
Islamic Union of Iraqi Turkmen.
Assembly of Justice and Equality.
Islamic Union of Philea Iraqi Kurds.
Prince Ahmed Tah Ahmed Yaseen Mahmood.
National Assyrian Party.
Islamic Movement of Iraqi Turkmen.
Movement of Iraqi Democrats.
Free Democratic Country Party.
Iraqi National Assembly.
Party of Allah (Hizbella) in Iraq.
Justice and Democratic Advancement Party.
Loyal Iraqis Society.
Islamic Philee Assembly in Iraq.
Democratic Iraq Assembly.
Islamic Heralds Party.
Union Party.
Turkmen Loyal Movement.
Kurdish Democratic Solution Party.
Amer Ali Hussein Owaid Al-Murshidi.
Turkmen National Movement.
Iraqi Turkmen Justice Party.
Ali Mua'yad Hussein Al-Qaisi.
Democratic Qasimi Assembly.
Free Philee Kurds Organization.
Iraqi Republican Assembly.
Democratic Islamic Streamline.
Iraqi Lords Council.
Democratic National Coalition.
National Baith-Nahrain Union.
Iraq Allah Party (Hizbella).
Free Republicans Party.
Democratic Establishment Party.
Free Civil Officers Movement.
Islamic Da'wa Movement.
Assembly of Future Iraq.
Iraqi Electors Assembly.
Assembly of Independents in Wasit.
Arabic Socialist Movement.

JeffP

That's going to be one helluva ballot!

It'll take an hour just to read all the candidates and another to decide. ;)

[robert_dinaro]

You see the only issue I take with your argument is that you use "Terrorist/Sunni" now since Faluja i fresh in your mind...two months ago you would have said "terrorist/Firebrand Shia" since Najaf was fresh in your mind....why don't we just call all Iraqis terrorists?? It would make this much easier for reference purposes.....now that was a cynical comment :D

it seems the terrorists are now women and children from reports being released from faluja

Falluja Women, Children in Mass Grave

Aljazeera | November 21, 2004

Residents of a village neighbouring Falluja have told Aljazeera that they helped bury the bodies of 73 women and children who were burnt to death by a US bombing attack.

"We buried them here, but we could not identify them because they were charred by the use of napalm bombs used by the Americans," said one resident of Saqlawiya in footage aired on Aljazeera on Sunday.

There have been no reports of the US military using napalm in Falluja and no independent verification of the claims.

The resident told Aljazeera all the bodies were buried in a single grave.

Late last week, US troops in Falluja called on some residents who had fled the fighting to return and help bury the dead.

However, according to other residents who managed to flee the fighting after US forces entered the city, hundreds more bodies still lay in the streets and were being fed on by packs of wild dogs.

http://www.infowars.com/articles/ira...n_children.htm


Iraqi civilian body count over 100 thousand

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99996596

I hate saddam but remind me again how many people he killed....

how many people are touched by the death of one person. if a friend dies it will effect at least 20 people. thats 2 million angry people for deaths resulting from action taken on Iraq by US led coalition not to mention those that are injured or rendered disabled. In addition to the 1000 of male Detainees held because they were in the wrong plave at the wrong time.

Where does it end, just like the dinar if there is too much dinar in circulation then the currency devalues, if the civilan deaths continue to grow then all justifications for invading are taken away, i.e NO WMD's and NO free democracy.


if you can stomach it here is really whats going

http://www.iraqjournal.org/

picture of war

WARNING THSE PICYURES ARE OF A GRAPHIC AND DISTURBING NATURE

http://www.embargos.de/irak/irakkrie...father_son.gif

http://www.embargos.de/irak/irakkrie..._abbas_12s.jpg

http://mindprod.com/images/bloodybaby.jpg


faces of dead US soldiers


http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/091004W.shtml

general pictures by independents

http://www.witterdanwit.nl/IraqUncensored/iuindex.html



WARNING: you really will need a strong stomach to see

http://mindprod.com/iraq.html

this is just a collection and while all this death continues then democracy and elections is just a word with no substance...

I'm not trying to be political, i am reminding you not to look the elections with a western eye, these are the ordinary people of Iraq thier elections.

sorry for being graphic but i had to make my point...

[robert_dinaro]

BEFORE I GET ATTACKED FOR MY LAST POST

I am just reporting things as i see them and trying to give a counter balance view point, take it or leave it.

I really dont want to cause offence, i am just trying to remind every one of the reality in Iraq and the human costs, in addition how certain actions may result in negative effects.

This war is supposed to be about winning the hearts and minds right...?

[Lux]

This war is supposed to be about winning the hearts and minds right...?

No, war is hell - always was, always will be.

By the way, I'm not sure I'd like to see pics like that after eating a hearty lunch. Nor do I think it's fair on the unsuspecting soul that clicks a link that says Election Date Set only to see the horrors of war. I could be wrong but I'm sure we'll find out soon enough.

It may be better served to place them on a thread called "Horrific Pics of War" and then let others decide if they want to click on it. I also believe there's something in the Rules about stuff like this since kids may surf this site.

[robert_dinaro]

No, war is hell - always was, always will be.

By the way, I'm not sure I'd like to see pics like that after eating a hearty lunch. Nor do I think it's fair on the unsuspecting soul that clicks a link that says Election Date Set only to see the horrors of war. I could be wrong but I'm sure we'll find out soon enough.

It may be better served to place them on a thread called "Horrific Pics of War" and then let others decide if they want to click on it. I also believe there's something in the Rules about stuff like this since kids may surf this site.

AGREED....POST EDITED

[Lux]

Oh and one more thing, over the course of American history, over 1.1 million soldiers have died.

I think we know a thing or two about war.

Not meant to be sarcastic, just truthful.

[tealcrow7]

While the information you present concerning the above horrors in Iraq are true and unfortunate at those locations... AT THE SAME TIME, there is also good happening in other parts of Iraq or otherwise the following websites are all lies. And somehow, I don't think that's the case.

http://www.thetruthaboutiraq.org/
http://chrenkoff.blogspot.com/2004/1...q-part-14.html
http://www.untoldiraq.org/
http://www.voicesofiraq.com/
http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/
http://tradearabia.com/home.htm

I realize there are drastic misunderstandings between Arabs and Americans. But I feel that for the GREATER GOOD, both sides must take a balanced perspective on all of this news. Both Arab and American sides to this issue have highly intelligent, hardworking, trustworthy people... but both sides also have a dark underbelly that wants nothing more than the destruction of the other side. Such is every country and ideology on the face of the earth. It is unfortunate, but true.

As high as humans can reach with Intellect, Reason and Compassion... we can also reach that low into the pit of misery and evilness that lives within the human heart. It's a pity that we waste our time fighting each other on a global scale, instead of focusing on the important things in life like family, love, and goodness. If everyone concerned themselves with those three things, can you imagine how much better EVERYONE's life would be... /sigh

--tealcrow7

[Lux]

Oh and one more thing, over the course of American history, over 1.1 million soldiers have died.

I think we know a thing or two about war.

Not meant to be sarcastic, just truthful.

Meaning we've buried our own, and unfortunately, there are many we never got to bury.

[robert_dinaro]

While the information you present concerning the above horrors in Iraq are true and unfortunate at those locations... AT THE SAME TIME, there is also good happening in other parts of Iraq or otherwise the following websites are all lies. And somehow, I don't think that's the case.

http://www.thetruthaboutiraq.org/
http://chrenkoff.blogspot.com/2004/1...q-part-14.html
http://www.untoldiraq.org/
http://www.voicesofiraq.com/
http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/
http://tradearabia.com/home.htm

I realize there are drastic misunderstandings between Arabs and Americans. But I feel that for the GREATER GOOD, both sides must take a balanced perspective on all of this news. Both Arab and American sides to this issue have highly intelligent, hardworking, trustworthy people... but both sides also have a dark underbelly that wants nothing more than the destruction of the other side. Such is every country and ideology on the face of the earth. It is unfortunate, but true.

As high as humans can reach with Intellect, Reason and Compassion... we can also reach that low into the pit of misery and evilness that lives within the human heart. It's a pity that we waste our time fighting each other on a global scale, instead of focusing on the important things in life like family, love, and goodness. If everyone concerned themselves with those three things, can you imagine how much better EVERYONE's life would be... /sigh

--tealcrow7

THANKS FOR YOUR POST

I enjoyed reading it

Things will get better....Arabs and westerners will become friends...I was born in Iraq and live in the UK, my best friend for the past 16 years is an American who was born in Sunny Vale, California. he lives in UK too.

I have discussed this with him.. he said the darkest point of a tunnel is just before you see light....I think thats true of Iraq.

Anyway thank you for being pragmatic...